Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 31 Member Share Posted January 31 Well done, and thanks for sharing the solution. Which relay is it... and NB those multiple different layouts in Sigma-engined Sevens. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 31 Member Share Posted January 31 Theories, please. I'll open the bidding with a duff relay pulling the system voltage down to a point where either the immobiliser or something that affects it decided not to play nicely. 10.7 V might be the highest recorded level at which that's been observed, and the previous recommended safe level was 10.5 V. And again we see a modern starter cranking a modern engine even when something else doesn't have enough oomph. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 13 minutes ago, Jonathan Kay said: Well done, and thanks for sharing the solution. Which relay is it... and NB those multiple different layouts in Sigma-engined Sevens. Jonathan 9 minutes ago, Jonathan Kay said: Theories, please. I'll open the bidding with a duff relay pulling the system voltage down to a point where either the immobiliser or something that affects it decided not to play nicely. 10.7 V might be the highest recorded level at which that's been observed, and the previous recommended safe level was 10.5 V. And again we see a modern starter cranking a modern engine even when something else doesn't have enough oomph. Jonathan Just 4 relays on my plate and a flasher can , unusually the fuse box is just cable tied up to the loom as I have change up light module , the power supply plate is held in by Velcro . its the 2nd one down the layout looks different to the diagrams I’ve seen from you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Good news 👍🏻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 31 Member Share Posted January 31 25 minutes ago, Andypscutt said: Just 4 relays on my plate and a flasher can... And is there a blank space for another? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Jonathan Kay said: And is there a blank space for another? Jonathan No just 4 spaces / it’s like they just fitted what they had lying around at the time of build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Andypscutt said: No just 4 spaces / it’s like they just fitted what they had lying around at the time of build If anyone happens to look at their Sigma relay plate can you tell me what relays should actually be in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 31 Member Share Posted January 31 Thanks I'll go through the library again when I'm back home. Jonathan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 1 Member Share Posted February 1 12 hours ago, Jonathan Kay said: Theories, please. I'll open the bidding with a duff relay pulling the system voltage down to a point where either the immobiliser or something that affects it decided not to play nicely. 10.7 V might be the highest recorded level at which that's been observed, and the previous recommended safe level was 10.5 V. And again we see a modern starter cranking a modern engine even when something else doesn't have enough oomph. Theory B, and rather simpler: The duff relay powered both something on which the immobiliser depends and the instruments. (And would probably be the mysterious "Ignition relay" on Sigmas.) How to tell these theories apart: • Work out which relay does what. • Rerun the voltage test. If it's still dropping to 10.7 V on cranking but now starting nicely then the first theory is wrong. (I'd also recommend routinely measuring battery voltage at rest, minimum during cranking, and at 3,000 rpm in the same way as fluid levels and tyre pressures... ) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) Pleased to hear you've sorted the problem. I've found out what the dangling Econoseal female 4-way is for -- launch control: I've also found this relay diagram for a 2013 Sigma -- I don't know if it matches yours: JV Edited February 1 by John Vine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, John Vine said: Pleased to hear you've sorted the problem. I've found out what the dangling Econoseal female 4-way is for -- launch control: I've also found this relay diagram for a 2013 Sigma -- I don't know if it matches yours: JV Yea that’s it / interesting mine has 5 pole relays fitted which according to your drawings is not required To his helps so it was the ignition relay that had got very hot , I pulled the relay plates down earlier and looks ok I closed up the contact and it’s good again the wires going into the ignition relay are not 30amp wires they are thicker so it obviously needs a 40amp relay in there Thanks again all really appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 6 hours ago, Jonathan Kay said: Theory B, and rather simpler: The duff relay powered both something on which the immobiliser depends and the instruments. (And would probably be the mysterious "Ignition relay" on Sigmas.) How to tell these theories apart: • Work out which relay does what. • Rerun the voltage test. If it's still dropping to 10.7 V on cranking but now starting nicely then the first theory is wrong. (I'd also recommend routinely measuring battery voltage at rest, minimum during cranking, and at 3,000 rpm in the same way as fluid levels and tyre pressures... ) Jonathan Great thanks - Don’t forget regarding battery testing the best way to test is a specific gravity test / I use this method to find dead cells and is a very accurate way ( and safe ) of determining the battery condition . I have asked for schematics let’s see what turns up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 All seems good now following test !! Cheers all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 6 hours ago, Jonathan Kay said: Theory B, and rather simpler: The duff relay powered both something on which the immobiliser depends and the instruments. (And would probably be the mysterious "Ignition relay" on Sigmas.) How to tell these theories apart: • Work out which relay does what. • Rerun the voltage test. If it's still dropping to 10.7 V on cranking but now starting nicely then the first theory is wrong. (I'd also recommend routinely measuring battery voltage at rest, minimum during cranking, and at 3,000 rpm in the same way as fluid levels and tyre pressures... ) Jonathan Jonathan / Why did you mention “ Mysterious Ignition relay “ does this part have some history ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 1 Member Share Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, Andypscutt said: Jonathan / Why did you mention “ Mysterious Ignition relay “ does this part have some history ? Just the unanswered question here: But John's full diagram might now be able to solve this. Jonathan PS: I think that's now four relay layouts for Sigmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCol Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 My 2013 Sigma’s fuses/relays… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 46 minutes ago, BigCol said: My 2013 Sigma’s fuses/relays… Nothing like mine ! Mines a 2015 which was originally a 270s apparently then fitted with the 310s kit 👊🏻 surely they don’t run the fan and everything through the ignition relay , it would explain a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 57 minutes ago, Andypscutt said: Nothing like mine ! Mines a 2015 which was originally a 270s apparently then fitted with the 310s kit 👊🏻 surely they don’t run the fan and everything through the ignition relay , it would explain a lot My 2016 310 isn’t like that either. I expect the Sigma Ti-VCT engines have a different loom (they certainly have a different ECU) so that isn’t a surprise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCol Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, StevehS3 said: I expect the Sigma Ti-VCT engines have a different loom (they certainly have a different ECU) so that isn’t a surprise. That would make sense, there is a lot of difference in the wiring (swapping a fixed cam Sigma for a Ti-VCT wasn’t practical because of that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, BigCol said: That would make sense, there is a lot of difference in the wiring (swapping a fixed cam Sigma for a Ti-VCT wasn’t practical because of that). Ok that’s interesting 🙏🏼 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducatidentist Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 That 900 Superlight is gorgeous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andypscutt Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 7 hours ago, ducatidentist said: That 900 Superlight is gorgeous! Thanks mate — I bought it as a basket case in 2009 , actually just needed carb cleaning a wheel repair and cam belts , covers about 150miles a year mostly from mot to home 😅 but a lovely analogue experience in our digital world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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