Caterham Cars LED Headlights - how to wire "dip" to be always on when main beam is active?

[anthonym]

Caterham Cars LED Headlights - how to wire "dip" to be always on when main beam is active?

Any ideas?

I am hoping it's simply necessary to jump a wire somewhere.

Why? Lousy quality dispersion of main beam when dip goes off.

Or even maybe just the replacement of the low beam relay with one that does not switch off when main is activated: though I suppose that is the same as taking a seocnd feed to it from the main beam circuit replay, so it does not go open circuit until the headlights are off. OR Replace the low beam relay with one that accepts two switch feeds, so one form low beam and one from high beam. 

Even more simple: maybe a different switch in the dash

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/content/discovery/ideas-and-advice/toggle-switches-guide

So we have an On-On Toggle switch from Dip to Main, I guess what I want is an On-and-add-another-one Toggle Switch

or: a second switch that makes the dip always on (when lights are activated) - I already have one that makes my (separate ) LEDs AlwaysOn--Off--OnUnlessHeadlightsOn so I am wondering if the AlwaysOn side of that switch can feed the dip relay as well as the Daylights without a clash between when the Dip ciruit itself is activated, will that 12v go back up to the extra switch (yes I reckon so) but I seem to recall two 12v feeds arriving at the same point remain a 12v feed, but then would it be completing a circuit to the second switch AlwaysOn pole? I think so. That would mean a one way current item would be required (trying to recall the name of these electronics devices)

Anthony

stil editing

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym
relays

[Jonathan Kay]

I don't know what type of relay you already have in the circuits.

...

Add a relay that is activated by the main beam circuit and supplies the dipped beam circuit.

Jonathan

[anthonym]

20 minutes ago, Jonathan Kay said:

Add a relay that is activated by the main beam circuit and supplies the dipped beam circuit.

 

isn't that like bridging beween the 86 terminals from main to low beam relays? Which with any luck would be simple to do. Dare I ask if you have a wiring digram for this? K Series Year 2000 headlights - now wired as CC LEDs. I presume the old H4 (?) system has been adapted. The image is just a generic, clearly when we switch on and go maoin beam the relay opens in some way

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[anthonym]

John Vine is typing.... waiting here with bated breath 😉

[John Vine]

How about a DPDT (double-pole double-throw) switch?   One throw could power Main and Dipped, and the other throw just Dipped, with the input poles connected.

[anthonym]

THAT is exactly what I was trying to figure out, which type it would be.

"with the input poles connected"

Exactly. 

Not sure what my circuit is although it is whatever "standard" is as far as I know post rebuild with CC LEDs.

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[Jonathan Kay]

3 minutes ago, John Vine said:

How about a DPDT (double-pole double-throw) switch?   One throw could power Main and Dipped, and the other throw just Dipped, with the input poles connected.

If you care about the looks you'd have to find one that matches.

Jonathan

[John Vine]

Just now, Jonathan Kay said:

If you care about the looks you'd have to find one that matches.

Very true.  In which case, opt for a relay triggered by main beam.

JV

[anthonym]

Buried somewhere, not concerned.

Though IF the dip relay is activated when the main lights switch is activated and it goes off when the main beam switch is activated then...

I need the correct wiring diagram. .. it could be as simple as the toggle switch.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[Jonathan Kay]

9 minutes ago, anthonym said:

isn't that like bridging beween the 86 terminals from main to low beam relays?

Isn't 86 SIGNAL IN? if so with the existing switch that would put both lights ON if either dip or main was switched ON.

But you could bridge the SIGNAL IN terminals with a suitable diode...

Jonathan

[anthonym]

Yes.

"diode" that was the term I could not recall.

I have enquired about my existing wiring.

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[anthonym]

may be this Ks with Stack from 2001 onwards

Main Wiring.pdf

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[John Vine]

For the relay, connect:

86 to the main beam supply
85 to earth
30 to 12v supply
87 to the dipped beam supply

I'll try to knock up a wiring diagram.  I don't think a diode is needed at all.

JV

 

[anthonym]

thanks - yes diode will depend on purity rather than me cheating as it were.

[Jonathan Kay]

3 minutes ago, John Vine said:

For the relay, connect:

86 to the main beam supply
85 to earth
30 to 12v supply
87 to the dipped beam supply

My emboldening. Is that the dipped beam signal from the switch or the +12 V supply?

Thanks

Jonathan

[anthonym]

so having gone a bit squint eyed looking at the diagram, it looks like the main lights switch goes via the "dip switch" so changing the toggle switch may be all it needs methinks. There is only one relay

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[John Vine]

14 minutes ago, Jonathan Kay said:

My emboldening. Is that the dipped beam signal from the switch or the +12 V supply?

The former.  Sorry for the confusion.

JV

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks

Jonathan

[John Vine]

To be clear, I'm not referring to any existing relay but rather an additional one.

JV

[anthonym]

I am wondering if all I need do is replace this switch

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/switches/234-toggle-switch-dip-inclduing-fixings.html?search_query=dip+switch&results=109

with one that adds to a feed instead of switching the feed, while the image is 2002 onwards, judging by the 620 version and being retrofittable, the functionality does not change

 

[John Vine]

In principle,  yes. It would be a sort of SPDT but with two outputs on one of the throws. Do these exist?

JV

[anthonym]

is this right? 

Quote

 

For the scenario you described, where one 12V circuit is always active and a second 12V circuit is added only when the switch is thrown, you would use a "Single Pole, Double Throw" (SPDT) toggle switch. This type of switch allows you to change the connection from one circuit to another. Here's how it works:

1. Single Pole (SP): This means the switch controls one circuit (or "pole") at a time. It has a single input terminal.

2. Double Throw (DT): This indicates that the switch has two output positions (throws). The switch can connect the input terminal to either of the two output terminals.

In your setup:

• The always-active 12V circuit would be connected to one of the output terminals of the SPDT switch.
• The second 12V circuit, which you want to add when the switch is thrown, would be connected to the other output terminal.
• The input terminal of the switch would be connected to the power source.

When the switch is in the first position, it will connect the power source to the always-active circuit. When you flip the switch to the second position, it will disconnect from the always-active circuit and instead connect the power source to the second circuit.

This way, you have one circuit that is always connected in one switch position, and when you toggle the switch, it disconnects that circuit and connects the second one.

 

 

[anthonym]

whether it exists I have to look

11332 products found for spdt switch !

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=spdt switch

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?pn=1&searchTerm=spdt&rpp=20&selectedNavigation=attributes.level2=Toggle Switches %26 Slide Switches;attributes.Contact_Configuration=SPDT;attributes.Terminal_Type=Tab;attributes.level3=Toggle Switches;attributes.Mounting_Type=Panel Mount;attributes.Switch_Operation=On-(On)

that shows two:

 

and another search I have not yet reproduced showed these, a trick seems to be to choose "tab" as the terminal connection when most others disappear

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[anthonym]

1 hour ago, John Vine said:

Do these exist?

so it seems, above  - would you approve of this approach?

edit and now confirmed the switch on my car IS the one shown by cc as being 2002 onwards; apparently the differences are the supplier and the position of the terminals.

Also strikes me that having both dip and main activated with LEDs is not at all the same as doing the same with ordinary headlights, because LEDs draw a lot less current; though I need to look see exactly what. Seems 15amps for ordinary headlights and MAYBE 5 amps for LEDs but I have enquired.

Edited December 8, 2023 by anthonym

[John Vine]

Agree about the reduced load with LED.

As far as I can see, all those switches are vanilla SPDT. In other words, you have either one circuit or another ON. If you try to power the dip circuit from throw-1 (main beam), then when you switch to throw-2 (dip) you'll power the main-beam circuit "in reverse" as it were.

I don't know whether SPDT switches with doubled-up outputs on throw-1 exist.

Personally,  I'd go for a relay - something like this:

JV