BDR conversion to throttle bodies

[Gridgway]

I'm getting way ahead of myself, but I have been musing over converting my BDR from Dellortos to ITBs.  I did a quick search on the site to try and find anything that might relate to the topic but failed.  I also had a quick look at the Jenvery website and that adds up to a lot of money very quickly.  Then I thought, what about bike throttle bodies and a megasquirt?

Anyone got pointers to any reference materials, or have done it or seen it done?

Cheers

Graham

[7 wonders of the world]

There are significant benifits to doing this correctly, using either Jenvey DCOE style TB or their Heritage range, for an original look, run this along side a 3D ignition under the control of an Emerald, yes it will add up but these are good real world upgrades, the ignition map in particular will make a huge improvement.

Discount is available on the ECU from Emerald,

You will need new fuel pump pressure reg, tank, injectors fuel rail and a few sensors etc to crank, TPS, water and air temp

Don't forget to factor in a mapping session too,

[Beagler]

Mine has been fitted with Jenvey throttle bodies and kept existing fuel pump and fuel tank although they did upgrade fuel injectors and sensors. ( See thread “Took The Plunge”)

[7 wonders of the world]

BDR's come with carbs as standard so  OE tank and pump, reg etc are not compatible 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Graham, Oliver S of the Penn area experimented with bike throttle bodies on his Crossflow.

[Gridgway]

Thanks all.  Can someone tell me about the difference in fuel tanks?  I have literally just bought a new S3 carb tank to replace the hugely rusty old steel thing.  It's still in the box.  The question is, can I use an injection tank for carbs?

If so I can return it and swap for an injection one.  Then run on carbs and upgrade to TBs when I get there.

[Gridgway]

I think I have answered my own question by talking to Caterham Parts.  The simplest thing is actually to have a return fitting welded in if I want to go that route.

[7 wonders of the world]

and providing you have a correct size outlet at the bottom of the tank you can run an exteranl roller pump(Bosch 200) and a dead end rail as finding a Metro fule pump cradd;e will prove a challenge... 

[Gridgway]

That Bosch 200 is going to need some fat wires at 17-20A!

Mind you my wallet has run into a corner whimpering.  I think it's going to be a very expensive project, budgetary estimate £4k

[alan c]

I converted my VX engined car in stages to make it a little easier on the wallet. Did ECU, wiring loom and conversion  to 3D ignition as stage 1. Loom had all connections for next stage.

Then later I converted to Jenvey TB’s and the tank in my car was already set up so I did not have that issue which was very handy as I have a non standard “ saddle “ tank in mine but that is a different story.

if I did it again I would go with the TB’s that look like standard Weber 45’s

[Gridgway]

Thanks Alan, the heritage bodies do look good.  Can I ask what ECU you went with and what ignition system please?  Did you make your own loom or buy a pre made one?

[anthonym]

Hi Graham, I am watching this thread with interest. From knowing nothing I have just spent 11 days fettling and tuning my Dellorto 45 DHLA "C"s. Have to say very happy with the result so far, one very short test drive last night. A very nice and different car.  

I readily accept modern systems are better; what is it you want from a new system? I want to keep mine simply because that's what it was built with.

Anthony

List I googled:

A throttle body is better than a carburetor in the following aspects:

• Lower emissions
• Smoother idling
• A better cold-start and performance.
• Better driveability and fuel economy
• It is easier to tune, and the throttle response is better.
• Fuel injection systems are best for off-roading because they decrease vibrations and help to overcome steep grades.

and a couple of pics to brighten things up:

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by anthonym

[7 wonders of the world]

Anthony, yo need to upgrade your fule hose, R6 is not compatible with Ethabol and deterriorates radpidly, you need R14, couple of metres will replace all the hose including the rear sections too  

 

[anthonym]

31 minutes ago, 7 wonders of the world said:

Anthony, yo need to upgrade your fule hose, R6 is not compatible with Ethabol and deterriorates radpidly, you need R14, couple of metres will replace all the hose including the rear sections too  

 

THANK YOU!  

 

[oilyhands]

There is an article on my website outlining what is required to go from carbs to injection it may offer a few pointers. It is available at http://www.dvapower.com/ems, there is some descriptive verbiage first, but there is link to the carbs/injection sub section.

Oily

[Gridgway]

Thanks Oily,  what ECU would you choose for a BDR on throttle bodies to give flexibility to get the best road response (if that makes sense)?

[OldAndrewE]

1 hour ago, 7 wonders of the world said:

Anthony, yo need to upgrade your fule hose, R6 is not compatible with Ethabol and deterriorates radpidly, you need R14, couple of metres will replace all the hose including the rear sections too  

 

And when you do that I suggest changing the clips to proper petrol pipe clips, not jubilee (worm drive) clips.  Petrol pipe clips stay round and compress the pipe evenlyThis sort of clip

[alan c]

Apologies been busy so slow to reply

Cannot access the car to double check but fairly sure the ECU is an MBE but not sure which one. I bought it second hand a long time ago. The loom was ready made and I think I got that from SBD.

 

[rkeywood]

3 hours ago, 7 wonders of the world said:

Anthony, yo need to upgrade your fule hose, R6 is not compatible with Ethabol and deterriorates radpidly, you need R14, couple of metres will replace all the hose including the rear sections too  

 

Or use Esso super (bio free). If the carbs haven’t had a service kit it the last few years they may not be bio friendly either.

[Gridgway]

Esso super isn't bio free any more 

[rkeywood]

You’re right, I hadn’t noticed that Esso had changed. It was when I last got 20l but that seems to be it. Millers EPS for garden tools from now on. 

[anthonym]

ok so the R6 has to be R14. Thanks

Carbs are relatively recently refurbed but I'll check with the chap.

Noted, get mikalor clamps.

Edited October 20, 2023 by anthonym

[Gridgway]

21 hours ago, 7 wonders of the world said:

Anthony, yo need to upgrade your fule hose, R6 is not compatible with Ethabol and deterriorates radpidly, you need R14, couple of metres will replace all the hose including the rear sections too  

 

Are you sure?  Almost all the descriptions I've seen of R6 hose is that it is Ethanol compatible.

[anthonym]

I'm checking with "my" rebuilder who fitted the R6

edit: Hose chat continued here (not wishing to hijack this thread)

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by anthonym

[anthonym]

of throttle bodies for your BDR I keep wondering about the Jenvey Historics that look like nice kit (speaking as an accountant this is). The ones that look like Carbs but are in fact Tbs. These

https://store.jenvey.co.uk/heritage/heritage-twin-tbody-40-48mm-pair-tdp40-48

this made me laugh:

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by anthonym