CtrMint Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Hey All,I stupidly left the ignition on in my 420 and have seemingly done damage to the Banner battery, even though a CTek was connected. There's literally no voltage, it appears open circuit and the charger refuses to see it. I removed it to test etc.I've ordered a replacement as I appreciate what's happened has probably done permanent damage. Rather than send it to the tip, I'm wondering if there's any possibility of getting some life back into it. I've a number of trailer related projects on the boil and a test car battery would be handy.Any workable tips to recover ?thanks for the advice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Yes, you might be able to.1 Top it up.2 If it wasn't detected by the smart conditioning charger then try brute force with an old-fashioned dumb trickle charger or jumping from a vehicle with the engine running ≥ 3,000 rpm.3 After a bit of that try it with the smart conditioning charger again.4 This might force it back into life. But I would never rely on it anywhere that it mattered if it didn't start the engine. But as a low-current bench or workshop power source that wouldn't be the case.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 PS: What are you going to put in the Seven to replace it?"Whats the best battery these days""Li ion batteries"Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 13, 2022 Leadership Team Share Posted November 13, 2022 If the Banner was previously doing a good job my opinion would be just fit another!Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22daz Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I never charge my Banner but do have a cut off key which I use whenever the car isn't in use. 8 years, 2 years and the odd slow start after 18 months are my 3 experiences. I bought one ready to swap the other day for £77 and they are simple to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I don't have a cut off key so do connect to an Optimate during summer but in the winter I completely disconnect and give it a charge every 6 weeks or so. First Banner failed at 3yo, but hadn't been disconnected during the lay up. Replacement Banner going strong at 4yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 Thanks all. I gave it a poke this afternoon with a bench power supply set at 12v and 1A. That seems to have sparked it into life but its not well. The CTek is now happy to charge it too.I've managed to get the Banner to hold 12v but it certainly can't support any form of drain. In fact even its presence in the circuit seems to impact any secondary supply. I've added a booster pack, and also a trailer battery across the terminals the 420R still won't crank. I connected the trailer battery the 420R and all good, she started straight away.I've opted for a replacement Banner from Tayna as I likely damaged the battery, so can't really complain about them. Picking a different battery for me is limited by who will delivery to the Isle of Man, batteries are tricky things for shipping, many online retailers don't want to known. Tayna were super helpful.It would have been nice to have considered a lighter battery such as a LiPO but I've four CTek charges due to Amazon/Hermes inability to communicate. The chargers only support the classic lead acid, so i've stuck with the same setup.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Thanks for adding the outcome.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 Nw Jonathan. I've left the Banner on the CTek to see if it can at least recover the battery to a usable state for low current applications. I'm building a rear facing camera system of the trailer, so having a battery in the study is handy for dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Have you checked the liquid level in every cell ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 I haven't, given I'm working on the assumption that the failure is due to me leaving the ignition on the battery was fine prior. Unless draining it impacts the liquid level???.I'll be honest I'm not overly keen to open it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I'd definitely check the levels and top up if necessary.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 The CTeK has managed to achieve step 4, absorption. It's attained over 80% capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 #11: I'll be honest I'm not overly keen to open it up.Can you say why? After all, checking electrolyte levels should be part of regular maintenance, especially if the battery spends long periods on a conditioning charger.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 Why? The internals being rather unpleasant.In 26 years of driving, I've never opened a car battery, and might have replaced maybe 1 or 2 batteries in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 The Banner isn't a maintenance-free type. As John says, checking the electrolyte level needs to be part of the regular maintenance routine. If it spends a long time on a conditioning charger it WILL electrolyse water off and the levels will drop. Mine needs toping up every spring when it's had extended periods on the conditioner over winter. The internals really aren't that nasty. You just need to flip the little caps open with a coin or larger washer and top up with distilled water to the mark. You don't actually have to handle acid at all, and even if you do get it in your hands the worst you'll get is slightly sore skin, and even then onlymif you don't wash it off straight away. There's really nothing to be scared of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 There are also little "L" shaped fluid level markers indicating the correct point to top each cell up to, that makes it easy to gauge the right level. If the fluid level drops below the top of the plates, then the battery may not be recoverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I agree with what's been said. It's important to keep the level up and as it's a doddle to do, why wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 With apologies to the OP for this hijack... I have considered using the abundant dehumidifier water produced at home instead of commercial distilled water for the battery top up. Any problems with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 #19: That's what I do. No problems at all.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Presumably dehumidifier water is ok to use for diluting coolant too (instead of demineralised water)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 #21: I do that too. No problems at all.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 So the CTek seems totally happy with the battery now, it's made it into the green on the 7 or so lights on top of the charger. The battery voltage seems stable too for instance I left full beam on for 5 mins, it didn't cause a significant change in voltage.I've not had chance to get some distilled water due to work etc but will take a look at this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Topping up as recommended above. I suggest wearing eye protection and using a plastic pipette. And I find that a head torch makes it easier to see what's happening.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 "So the CTek seems totally happy with the battery now, it's made it into the green on the 7 or so lights on top of the charger. The battery voltage seems stable too for instance I left full beam on for 5 mins, it didn't cause a significant change in voltage."That's interesting,,, are you now considering using it away from home?Voltages of batteries that aren't under load can be misleading. Dedicated load testing equipment is common in the trade. The best DIY test is measuring the minimum battery voltage when cranking the starter.How about checking the levels, topping up if needed, leaving it overnight on the smart conditioning charger and then running that test... or the full house:Battery voltage: • At rest • Minimum during cranking • At 3,000 rpm.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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