finmac Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 Recently bought a lovely 1 owner R300 K, (forgotten what a great wee driving machine these are having owned one way back when they first came out!). Anyway, I'd appreciate a wee refresher as to current thinking on lubrication for it please. The car has a factory Apollo and also sump foam. I won't be tracking it and wanted to know whats the frequency to change the foam or potentially just remove it altogether? Also, I have about 10 litres of 5w50 Comma Motorsport oil in the garage, is this the right stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Paul Richards Posted November 6, 2022 Area Representative Share Posted November 6, 2022 Ditch the foam. Modify the sump gasket by putting a couple of holes near the pickup. Oil is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 From my time with a 1.8K SS-R (essentially an R300)...I think the consensus is to ditch the foam permanently. That's certainly what I did.Comma Motorsport 5W/50 is exactly the right oil to use.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 And this is where to add the extra holes in the gasket:JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent AR Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 I have had an R300K for 12 years and have it serviced regularly at Sevens and Classics. They have never suggested removing the foam and each time it's been changed, it was fine and not degrading. However, regular oil changes and foam changes need to be done. The 5W/50 oil is correct.Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 Hi Finlay. Ditch the foam and use 5W-50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmac Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 I'm not sure what the foam is supposed to do. My guess is it helps filter out bubbles descending towards the sump.I did remove the foam eventually but never had any problems with the three or four I had replaced. The simplest answer to whether it stays or goes is:If the engine goes bad because of having the foam it is your fault for not removing it.If the engine goes bad because of not having the foam it is your fault for removing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21jigsaw Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 The K series installation was designed with a shallow sump to fit under bonnet. The consequence being a low shallow volume of oil which was susceptible to aeration - tiny bubbles suspended in the oil. This was amplified buy the high lateral g forces generated by the cars. The aerated oil would circulate to the hydraulic tappets acting as a spring the valves bounce resulting in loss of control, the valves would touch the pistons bending them, eventually with a bending fatigue the valve heads would drop off resulting in total engine failure. The tiny bubbles suspended in the oil need to be burst or be purged . Air is removed / bubble burst if the oil hits a solid surface / object ie baffle, foam, block or sump. The sign off test devised by Caterham for a 1400 Supersport was 1st gear (5 speed box) max revs three figure of eights as fast as possible brake to a stop idle the engine and listen to see if the tappets rattled / aerated. The foam arrangement gave the required results. Further development mainly for track competition resulted in the Apollo tank, solid tappets, purple pump dry sump leading to much higher performance gold pump dry sump package. To run an Apollo with the increase in oil volume and the centrifugal purging of air from the system would probably negate the use of the foam. I have run the same foam for some 27k miles 13 years without issue. There have been failures of the foam leading to engine failure possibly due to :- 1) bad batch of foam material 2) fuel contamination 3)Oil compatibility / contamination 4) engine temperature etc. There is no clear reason as to the cause of failure of the foam. Hope this helps Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Is that the general consensus: that if you run an Apollo, then a foam baffle is not necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmac Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 Very helpful thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted November 9, 2022 Area Representative Share Posted November 9, 2022 JP: as 21 Jigsaw lead the Rover team participating in the installation of the K into Caterhams, he is certainly a voice of authority.But note he is explaining why the foam is there and recounting his own experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 #12 - many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted November 21, 2022 Area Representative Share Posted November 21, 2022 #9 - Thirteen years is a long time to run a K Series with the same foam baffle.When owning a K Series I used to change the foam religiously at a four year point irrespective of mileage. During ownership I changed the foam three times & I can assure you that each baffle was very 'crispy' & discoloured.Oil saturation & extreme changes in temperature from cold to running hot then any foam would have the appearance I witnessed.IMO you are pushing the limits of serviceability of the foam baffle & it could not be too long before some of the little crispy bits end up circulating the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7SW Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I did change on 2 years basis the foam for several years, nevers seen any issue with it, clear and flexible.However I began a little bit concerned with the pan fixing threads, afraid of threads degradation.I so decided to remove the foam and replace it with a Baffle Hellier (with a modified gasket).Since, I did several long trips like Grandes Alpes, Morvan, ... I never had any issue with: no trouble with the oil pressure, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Just fit Time-serts in all the threads. Once done never any problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Field Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 My 1999 K has 17k on the clock. Last year the oil pick up was partially blocked by disintegrating foam leading to a dramatic loss in pressure. Fortunately I got away with it and when Classics and Sevens took it in, they simply removed the foam permanently.The car is used for road use only, no track work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmac Posted November 24, 2022 Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 Bit of a daft follow up question please. Why does the sump gasket need modified by adding two extra holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadsport06 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Oil drains back to the bottom of the sump rather than sitting on the top of the gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 #18First time I took the sump off I got oil everywhere and yes I did drain it first :-)The gasket has a wide ledge to block off the spinning parts from the oil (windage) and because of the angle of the engine, oil sits on the ledge.The two holes simply allow the oil back into the sump. It doesnt 'gain' capacity of oil in the sump as, without the holes, the engine would have been filled to capacity anyway. That said I think it is a good idea to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7SW Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Hello, here are two pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmac Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 Brilliant guys - many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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