KayTee Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 WOW ! Now, *this* is one reply :-) Thanks, Chris ! Hmm, *just about* stand up to the hp isn't really comforting, is it? I'd really like to be able to confidently floor it, without listening to the rear end developing weird ideas on its own ... Soo, either a *full monty* Ford, or a rice axle, huh ? ;-) Weelll ... I'm all for nicking good ideas. BUT: who could do the proper bracketry for the Toxota axle, so that it fits into the car ? Does it have the *correct* width (more or less)? What car is it from ? (I can picture myself very well in the car spares department of our local Toyota dealership, utterly confusing the slick sales rep. by demanding brake shoes for a 7 ...) Are there LSDs available for that thing ? Re. the axle and hub purchase, is either company online, or how and where can I reach them ? 80 quid each for hubs, I'll have to bite that one, I suppose :-( Plus bearings/races. And you're *sure* that the stub axles are the same ?? Otoh, why should they do two. Why not, it's England ;-) Whoops! IT WAS A JOKE, OK ??!!?? :-) Either way, your help is immensely appreciated ! Thanks big time, again! Cheers - Karsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Birkin have a web site www.birkin.co.za, which shows their Series 3 Lotus Seven Replica and the car fitted with the Toyota Axle. Frazer Cars in New Zealand also use this axle. I haven't measured one but I am sure that it must fit as both of these cars are the same size as short cockpit Lotus Sevens. Quaife used to make a "Torque Biasing Diff" for the Toyota and Birkin list an LSD in their brochure. The model of Toyota is the Rear Wheel Drive Corolla GTI, which is known as the AE86 by all of the Toyota buffs. (There is an AE86 web site) Fensport are Toyota breakers and specialise in competition parts. Their web site is www.fensport.co.uk and they have several axles listed. You would ahve to measure up to be confident and the "length" of the diff nose and its diameter at the drive flange would be important. Obviously you would need a "special" propshaft as well. All Lotus Series 2&3 and Caterhams have used the same upright and the stub axle has never changed. Lotus originally used the Triumph PCD 3.35" as the used a Standard 10 rear axle. The Herald/Spitfire/GT6 all used the same PCD. The Lotus Seven Series 3 used a Ford rear axle with a 4.25"PCD and had the front hubs modified to suit. The upright never changed. Caterham used a Spitfire Mk4 Upright as this was a bit stronger than the original Herald. This is still used today but has been modified on newer cars as the lower trunnion has been removed and replaced by a spherical joint. The stub axle is still common. Motorsport magazine featured this upright in their Tecnofile series. It was also fitted to Elans and Europas. It was used by Coore Cars to win two F1 Worls Championships, by Brabham to win two more World Championships and was fitted to Lotus 18 FJ and F1 cars, to name just a few, so it does seem to be quite effective. I did see a stall at last years Lotus Show at Donnington selling Alloy Hubs for £50 each but they only had Triumph PCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Axle brackets. If you did fit a Toyota, you would have to have a local fabrication shop copy your Ital mounts as both the Birkin and the Frazer use a Four-link axle with a Panhard Rod, which is obviously quite different to the Caterham's A bracket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Hubs http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 About axles, i had the luk to find a geniune Atlas axle to be on the safe side with 180 bdr power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Elie, The Atlas is now being re-manufactured and is quite readily available. It can be obtained in wide, narrow and baby formats along with fully floating half-shaft conversions and all of the other Works Escort modifications and ZF LSDs. I think that the "Baby" Atlas that was fitted to about 400 Mk2 RS2000s is about the same width as the standard Mexico. I think that a fully modified new axle is about £1500 + VAT. Do you know how heavy it is compared to the "English" axle ? as it will certainly handle all the power that you can throw at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KayTee Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Thanks again, Chris ! :-) Hmm, I can't find an axle @ Fernsport's. parts - AE86 ... where now ?? Not engines, acessories, conversions ... I do find LSDs for 180ish. Great hints, though !! But then, I'd need to have the brackets made-up and welded, an new propshaft flange and prop made, the axle flange modified for Ford or Ital pcd ... all that adds-up, especially since I don't have CNC or even 'normal' milling facilities at hand. :-( And I *bet* that SPC wouldn't throw a Tyoota axle onto their jig in order to make brackets and stuff ... :-(( The Ford Atlas axles are of different dimensions compared to the English ? Another good way out blocked. So, back to the beginning. Toyota, though cheap up front and strong, will end up *really* exoensive, considering all the custom-work that needs to be done (Or does anyone fancy a small batch to be made-up in the UK??). The English Ford may be almost as fragile as the Ital. Atlas are either impossible to find, or *REALLY* expensive as new ones. What do I do ? Forget the BDA ? No ####ing way. Clueless - Karsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted February 5, 2001 Share Posted February 5, 2001 I have a reasonable machine shop at work and would be happy to modify the half shaft flanges to a Ford or Triumph PCD. Making and fitting the brackets shouldn't be too difficult and I could arrange to have this work done if there is interest. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Chris, The Atlas was only found on the MK1 Escort with the door locking separate from the handle but i am not 100% sure about this.The Atlas has the differential from a Capri but with the track for an Escort. There is another rear axle witch looks like an Atlas but is +/- 1" smaller in dia. and whas found on the Escort Van and some 1100cc cars. i have both axles in my garage and there is a difference. About the weight this is surely more than an English axle but it is bomb proof so i accept this downside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Why not fit the English axle and just have the stud holes redrilled on a new PCD at the half shaft ends to match the existing wheels? There would be no need for front hub mods or wheel swaps then. If you are worried about power rating, scanning Motoring News should reveal some Group 4 halfshafts. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KayTee Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Chris, John, thanks for your replies ! Chris: it's really kind of you to offer all that help ! I have contacted fensport, but they wrote that they didn't have any AE86 axles. I am not certain if I'd be able to fabricate a suitable jig for the attachment brackets in the first place. They not only have to be accurate relative to each other, they should also be accurate regarding gorizontal and longitudal (?) achsis of the axle. (Does that make any sense??) That, plus the bracket fabrication itself, plus the modification of re-drilled hubs ... I think it's over the top, don't you as well? If i had the workshop here, OK, but getting others so deeply involved, internationally ... Naah, that's way too much. THANKS BIG TIME, however !! Now, if you knew where to find a properly modified Atlas axle ... Didn't suppose so ... they're really rare, aren't they? John.I spke to SPC regarding re-drilling English flanges for Ital pcd. He told me that theer actually wasn't very much 'meat' left, considering tha there are already studs in it. The alternative he proposed was, of course, to use Quaife shafts and flanges, properly drilled. But then one ends up with weaker and less ideally placed Ital wheel-studs. Sooo, joining-in with the wheel-bulk-buy, I'll also be looking for Ford-pcd front hubs (MerlinMotorsport, thanks, Chris!). BUT: where to find a suitable axle for the Caterham, apart from SPC ? Any pointers ?? Thanks for all your tremendous help !! Regards - Karsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 idea.gif Kay tee Maybe i have an addres in Germany where you can find an decent rear axle. i payed +/- 150DM and it is 70km from Francochamps.If i have a tel. or addres i mail it to you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Gibson Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Someone recently told me that the Triumph TR7 used the Ital axle and it had a better grade steel axle (stonger,less prone to breaking) and the cars fitted with an automatic had LSD sometimes (mostly he said) Is this true. The TR7 is very available in the USA where other Ital axles are not. Richard Gibson Washington DC USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravellinMan Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 I've converted my Classic to a Ford Escort axle and maintained the Ital wheel stud pitch. I'll be down in Devon over the weekend of 28/29 April, if you want to have a look/chat. Tony Boyd Travellin' Man Tony Boyd 97,000 miles in 6 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary-Cornwall Posted February 14, 2001 Author Share Posted February 14, 2001 Tony, assuming the invite was directed at me given location, that sounds like a good excuse for a trip in the 7 (weather permitting). Could you E-mail me (gary_ball@hotmail.com) nearer the time if it's still convenient. Thanks Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KayTee Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Tony, any chance for me to get to see a pic of your hubs and drums ? Do you have anything digitally, or could you do a quick scan of a 'real'photo ? Thanks ever so much ! Cheers - Karsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Kay Tee watch your e-mail idea.gif wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravellinMan Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I'll see if I can get some photos over the weekend. One point of note: If you wand to retain the original drums, i found that my superlite wheels didn't have a large enough central hole. the boss in the centre of the hlf shaft end plate was too big. TAKE EXTREME CARE! my first attermpt reduced the diamter of this boss too much and the drum was able to move - even though the wheel nuts were up tight. the boss should be stepped to provide the correct diamter for the drum to fit on and a reduced diamter for the wheel to go over. if you have two sets of wheels, check both. Travellin' Man Tony Boyd 97,000 miles in 6 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanteam Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Would a thin, 5mm spacer not solve this problem, if the studs are long enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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