wild bill Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Came to a stop last night, fortunately not far from home so car back in garage. Car suddenly lost power. Basically no cylinders receiving spark to fire as far as i can work out so far.The engine turns over fine but no ignition light and no whirring prime of fuel pump. Not the intertia switch (must get around to removing that soon) and as i had a spare coil i changed it just because it was quick and i had the time. Battery has plenty of power and i've charged it over night. No blown fuses so what else could i check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 15, 2022 Member Share Posted June 15, 2022 You have an ignition warning light but it doesn't come on when the switch is turned? And it used to come on then?Any recent work on it?What's your ignition set-up?And do you need any wiring diagrams? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 To answer those points1) Yes it used to2) No not for a long time3) That would be like feeding strawberries to pigs. I might feel differently if i worked for NASA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 15, 2022 Member Share Posted June 15, 2022 I suggest checking the wiring and continuity at the ignition switch. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 What engine is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I had this and one of the internal springs in the ignition switch had broken. I purchased a defender replacement switch from Rimmer and fitted it into the original lock barrel.The switch has a copper shoe that bridges the various contacts as you turn the key. The springs provide contact pressure onto the shoe.I was on a trackday so just made a jump cable up ;-) Message me if you need more info.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted June 15, 2022 Area Representative Share Posted June 15, 2022 Immobiliser failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I'd agree about checking the IGN switch first of all. It may simply be a detached spade connector...JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 I don't have an immobiliser on the car. The failure of a spring is a possible as all the spade connectors are intact. The car is running a 2.3 Duratec. It feels like an ignition barrel issue (i know i know a pointless observation) so possibly a replacement barrel. Luckily i live next door to Beckington Motors. They cant get to it until Tuesday so weekend stuffed but never mind i'll go and get the splitty started to keep my petrol fix alive. Bloomin frustrating. Perhaps i should do a course in vehicle electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 My Rover K was intermittently unable to start but would turn over. The Crankshaft position sensor was at fault which caused the ECU not to know where the pistons where. I assume a Duratec will have something similar.Rover crankshaft sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Some checks with a voltmeter may help to eliminate some of simple faults such as ignition switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 Presumably if it was the position sensor i'd still get an ignition light and the fuel pump would prime but theres nothing happening until the key is turned and the starter tries. So no ignition light and no fuel pump. This leads me to suspect a failed barrel in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 17, 2022 Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 Yes, that's the logic that led me to suggest the switch.But if anyone has another suggestion about why the starter still runs...J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 When I saw your 7 a few weeks ago (tyre delivery!), I think you said that the 2.3D was a transplant into your older chassis?What chassis loom, fuses and relays do you have now? Were they modified in some way, or are they now standard Duratec?And a couple of thoughts:When you turn the IGN switch to position #2 (to energize switched circuitry but without spinning the starter), do other switched components such as indicators and brake lights work ok?Are your relays pushed firmly into their sockets?Re #13:But if anyone has another suggestion about why the starter still runs...That's what got me thinking about relays, Jonathan. I imagine the starter relay is energized in IGN position #3. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 I did think relay might be a possibility. Everything works (lights, indicators hazards etc) but no ignition light. Relays are pushed in but might have failed. Loom is as it was when it was K Series as are fuses and relays. Been like that since transplant in 2009 with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 17, 2022 Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 "The engine turns over fine but no ignition light and no whirring prime of fuel pump.""Everything works (lights, indicators hazards etc) but no ignition light."Please can you confirm that the indicators work with the ignition switch ON but not OFF. The main light switch and the fuel pump and the hazard lights aren't ignition-switched. The fuel pump and the indicators are ignition-switched.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 17, 2022 Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 "The engine turns over fine but no ignition light and no whirring prime of fuel pump."Do you get a flicker on the ignition warning light as you first turn the key to the START position?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 The main light switch and the fuel pump and the hazard lights aren't ignition-switched. The fuel pump and the indicators are ignition-switched.I think there may be a typo there, Jonathan. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Re #15:What year was the K, and was it EU2 or EU3? (I'm trying to identify the matching wiring diagram -- as is JK, no doubt!)Are you running other K components, such as fuel pump and alternator?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 17, 2022 Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 Thanks, John.Should be:"Everything works (lights, indicators hazards etc) but no ignition light."Please can you confirm that the indicators work with the ignition switch ON but not OFF. The main light switch and the hazard lights aren't ignition-switched. The fuel pump and the indicators are ignition-switched.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 OK So in an idle moment i swapped the 2 relays (They are the same part) moving the top one to the middle relay position. Ignition on and fuel pump priming but then after putting the bottom relay back in the car is dead again. Taking bottom relay out again made no difference it's still dead again so I am now assuming that there is a short circuit knackering the ignition relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Sounds like a promising diagnosis. How many relays do you have, and do you know what each one does? Can you post a pic?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 It's so tight up there that i can't get a pic (despite numerous attempts). There are 3 relays 2 smaller of the same type and one large which seems to operate indicators and hazards (and probably some other stuff) The faulty relay is the middle of the three which is one of the smaller relays. It's pointless replacing them until i can narrow down where the short is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 This was mine if this helps, Took with my borescope for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 So last night car is dead as a proverbial. This am I remove the middle relay (top and middle are the same) to get a part number.Wander in to garage an hour later and think i'll just turn the key and hey presto car starts so ignition relay must be the top one then, but middle relay is still out by my PC so indicators not working. Put middle relay back in and evrything is working. Problem is i'm now unsure of taking the car out as I do not want to breakdown again. I think the answer id to get a voltmeter diagnostic done on the fusebox/relay ignition system by someone who knows what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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