Question on roll bars

[Croc]

 

I have a 2018 420R which is solely used on track days.  It is equipped with the track day roll bar with duel diagonals.  I was thinking of running with Lotus on Track next year and they require:

"Caterham type vehicles must be fitted with an ASN approved Roll Over Protection system(ROPs)"

What is this?  Lotus On Track said I should talk to Caterham and have them provide the written documentation.  I rang Caterham but they could not tell me.   I know to be FIA compliant you need to add the petty strut to the track day roll bar but this may not be the same thing.  

Easiest solution may be just to avoid their events and stuck with the C&L7C track days but I thought I would pose this question to the brains trust in this club!

Thanks

mike

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Mike: is this in the UK, the UK and other European countries, or somewhere else?

And have you found the notes and linked articles in  "Trackday Documents"?

Jonathan

[GulfSeven]

Hi Mike,

Yes, you will need to install the petty strut to the track day roll bar to make it FIA-compliant, and therefore accepted on LOT track days.

I'm an LOT lifetime member (having owned an Elise for 14 years before buying my Seven), and discussed this at length with Caterham and Paul from LOT after my car was delivered. I'd naively assumed a track day roll bar would be accepted on all track days too.

I decided I didn't want to drill holes for the bar and not be able to take passengers (or an instructor), so consequently won't be going to any more LOT track days 

I went to the Williams charity track day last year and have signed up for two C&L7C track days this year, so not the end of the world

I'm not sure why LOT have different requirements to everyone else.

[StevehS3]

I have the normal Caterham track day roll bar with the double diagonal bracing, no petty strut and haven't had any trouble doing LoT days in the UK. I asked them about it and they said fine for UK but I would need a cage for overseas circuits. 

[GulfSeven]

That wasn't what Paul said to me 2 years ago.

 

Having said that I'm sure I saw Caterhams without petty sruts on track with me back when I had my Elise.

 

Either way, it was a definite no when I enquired, and one of the main reasons I joined C&L7C.

[StevehS3]

Tim, I have to say it isn't obvious what is required - hence why I emailed them. I've done 8 days in the UK with LoT during 2020/21 and nobody has asked me about it. There are always a few Caterhams there and I don't remember ever seeing a petty strut. On their latest T&Cs it says a cage is now required for Oulton. 

[GulfSeven]

You're right Steve - the wording in the LOT T&Cs changed in November, and is different to when I was discussing it with Paul:

All Caterham type vehicles must be fitted with an ASN approved Roll Over Protection system (ROPs). In addition, all Caterham type vehicles must be fitted with a 6 point approved roll-cage at Brands Hatch GP, Bilster Berg, Dijon, Oulton Park, Silverstone, Spa Francorchamps & Zandvoort.

https://www.lotus-on-track.com/terms-conditions/

Is ASN approval different to FIA approval?

 

[Shortshift]

Well, that's all rather complicated.

As I understand it, the term ASN is the generic acronym used to refer to the various national bodies that regulate official motorsport in individual countries.  For the UK, that is Motorsport UK (used to be called MSUK) which is the national membership organisation and governing body for four-wheel motorsport in this country.  Generally speaking, UK trackdays are not subject to Motorsport UK regulations and, as far as I know, no Motorsport UK rules and regulations are published specifically for trackday activites. 

So I guess the revised LoT requirement now means that any participant driving a Caterham on one of their trackdays is required to have a fully compliant, competitive-motorsport ROPs fitted to the car, and that any such ROP must meet the requirements contained in the official competitive-motorsport regulations that are published in what is referred to as the 'Blue Book'.  In other words, a race spec ROPs.

I'm tempted to say "good luck with that". Wow!

James

[Croc]

 

Thank you for the various responses.  This is helping to clear my confusion greatly.  To chime in on some of your observations:

#2   Hi Jonathan.  Yes it is UK.  I keep a Caterham in the UK for my UK/European track days.  It was supported by Bookatrack which then became Want2Race and then Ginetta but then I moved it in November to TFL Racing who support other club members.  This change will allow me to attend C&L7C's track days for the first time (provided they accept a non-UK licence which the T&Cs require).  I have read the Club's trackday T&Cs and, to the great credit of whoever drafted them, they are clear and understandable so I have no confusion.   I know I can join the various CL7C events without issue.  Its just that since I cannot always control my travel schedule, I look to other trackday operators to make the calendar of events work when I get to the UK.  

 

#6   Thank you Steve.  Yes I emailed Paul too but got back an answer that left me confused.  I could see it was a recent change from the history of T&Cs they have on their website.  I had never heard of "ASN" and googling was not getting me any clarity.  Even Caterham were confused as they work to FIA and MSUK standards.

 

#7 and #8  Thank you Tim and James.  You confirmed what I suspected - they want full FIA compliance or some other motorsport authority compliance.  I guess they word it that way to cover all participants from all countries they go to.  Like you Tim, I don't want to drill my car for the strut and prevent passengers or instructors so will look at other events and just avoid LOT.  I still will attend W2R/Ginetta events.  Salone Events have some options.  RSR run great events at Spa and in Spain.   Looking at MSV as well.   Plus the big win I achieved last month is I can now attend C&L7C events which I have wanted to do for a very long time.  

 

Thank you all for your input to clarify my confusion!   

[StevehS3]

Separately, I noticed the track day roll bars have no stickers at all these days. I seem to remember my earlier car had labels but I can't remember if it was purely a Caterham / Caged branding or a reference to a safety standard. 

[david nelson]

So roll bar and petty strut is a no go as this is a 5 point connection not 6. 

I also see the new track day roll cage has not sticker so guess although 6 point is a no go.

this only leaves roadsport/acadamy cage ot SLR cage.

[Shortshift]

Well, Mike, I'm obviously pleased that you found the Club TSRR document clear and helpful (I'll stop blushing in a mo) and I'm even more pleased to read that you'll be joining us on more Club trackdays this year.  I might be biased but I think they're some of the very best trackdays you'll find anywhere...

To be clear, though, the so-called trackday rollover bar (with diagonal brace) is regarded as being FIA compliant for competition purposes when it is fitted with the additional Petty strut/brace and, from memory, the rollover bar itself is pre-drilled to accept the bracing strut.  So you'd just need to fix the lower end of the brace (to the area of the body where the passenger-side dash meets the passenger step-over rail) to meet LoT's requirements for their trackdays.

By the way, great to see that you are also another of Phil's clients at TFL.  I share a car (not a Seven) that Phil looks after, garages for us and brings to a number of trackdays each year, so we're bound to bump into one another during the coming season.

James
(Club Trackday Assistant - amongst other things!)

[Croc]

 

Sorry to make you blush James!   

I probably saw your 'other' car when I was at the workshop coordinating the move of my car from Blyton Park.  I have known Phil and Sarah going on 10 years now.  Its good to see them so successful with this business.   Looking forward to seeing you at a TFL Track Day Club Event if not a C&L7C event.

 

Cheers

mike

[Shortshift]

James