John Vine Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Can anyone give me a rough figure for the cost of a 6-sp refurb/overhaul?My gearbox started to play up badly today on the way to Millwood's BBQ, especially changing down 6/5/4. Often, the change was completely blocked, with lots of what sounded like gear teeth attempting to mesh. Upchanges 4/5/6 were not so bad. All other gears were ok. This appears to be a more serious version of a similar intermittent fault I encountered in March 2020. I guess there are several possible causes, but the prime suspect seems to be a broken synchro ring. But whatever the cause, it's engine-out time, then a trip to either SPC or R&R.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 I had mine rebuilt at SPC and was 800+That included three new bearings, a new gear (broken tooth), mods to 2nd gear (bored to increase tolerance) and new uprated indent spring.The 'full strip and refresh' didn't however include checking the breather plate screws that hold the spring bar underneath. This bar subsequently fell into the gearbox and luckily it fell into the tailpiece. If it had gone the other way it would have lunched the box!! I'll be using R&R next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Years ago, R&R used to charge £170 labour plus parts used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Steve makes a lot of modified parts for the 6 speed box to eliminate many of the common problems - other places simply replace the failed part with the same part....which fails again.https://www.tracsport.com/caterham-6-speed-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 Thanks, chaps.Re #4: Of course, I don't yet know what caused my problem, but is there a definitive list of the "problem" parts? SPC mentions only one (or maybe two?). For info, the box has done getting on fo 50K miles. Is that a reasonable span between refurbs, or unusually short?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I am just about to take my box out and refurb it, (2nd gear pain to engage and sticking in 6th and 4th a bit,) car has done 59000 kms. I am going to rely heavily on SPC and another guy on facebook for advice as detent pin would seem to be the sticking, and synchro the gear issue, hoping to stretch to SPC for the lightened bit to ease pressure on synchros. FYI I aim to heavily record and youtube the work as theres not much around on the box strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 An update as I proceed with lifting the engine...I've just drained the gearbox oil. AFAIK, the oil was the original fill back in 2008 as I haven't changed it since then and I can't find any reference to a change on my service records. This is what the magnetic plug looked like:That's a lot of swarf, but is it normal?More worrying is this little fella, also on the magnetic plug: It's about 7mm across, and appears to be made from spring steel. I can lift the little triangular flap above and it snaps back when released.What is (or rather, was) this part? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 My 360R 6speed was bad out the box, it lasted 1000 miles before the fault was diagnosed, but was run a few 100 miles beyond that before a rebuild. 3rd gear had caused the problem, resulting in 3rd, 4th and all synchros being replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 I must have been lucky. My 6-speed had done almost 49K miles when it started playing up.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted August 13, 2021 Leadership Team Share Posted August 13, 2021 John, that debris looks similar to one of the small spring clips you often find on a dial gauge?Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Hi John the swarf on magnetic plug I see almost every time I go into a gearbox for oil change,The spring steel clip....Shape wise a bit like maybe a metal version of the saddle clip that goes on end of gear lever onto selector shaft - however I sense that even if that did bust off it could not end up down there....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted August 14, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted August 14, 2021 John -Your worst fears confirmed ? The fuzz on the mag plug is reasonably acceptable after all the years & miles without an oil change but an oil change at the 5-6 year point would have helped. I know advice just a tad late !As for the piece of metal, any loose item like that is not going to do the internals much good. The trouble is are there more larger pieces that cannot exit the drain hole ?If you recall while at Millwood on Sunday there was a frank group discussion about whom to entrust the box rebuild to. So I presume that the box will be going north to Redditch ?Other box overhaul specialists are available.Keep us posted on the job progression & costs as at some time in the future we may well all succumb to the vagaries of the 6 speeder after a lengthy period of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 Maybe it has nothing to do with the box but hitched an undercover ride during initial assembly or a subsequent oil change and sneaked in that way? I can imagine someone putting the plug down on a bench where there happened to be bits of debris lying about....JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 Thanks, Geoff. Yes, I agree about oil changes, and I'll be sure they're done regularly from now on! The old stuff was a fairly horrible Brown Windsor soup. I'm going to refill with Comma SX 75W-90 GL4. I've just poked a finger and a magnetic wand into the drain hole and can't find anything else fighting to get out.The box is going to R&RT. I've considered the counter arguments re Steve's modified parts etc, but Phil has provided exemplary service to me in the past and I trust him to do a thoroughly good job. Besides, I don't yet know what the actual problem is, or what part has failed.Watch this space....JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 Thinking now about reassembly....The clutch m/c was filled with DOT5.1 by Marcassus Sport in Toulouse when they replaced my clutch a few years ago.When I come to re-bleed the clutch, can I use DOT4 (which I have handy) or must I continue to use 5.1?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all compatible with each other and don't have a problem if residual quantities of each mix when bleeding, DOT 5 is the one that is incompatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 Thanks, James. Every day's a school day...JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 An update...I took the box into Phil Stewart today for a rebuild. He replaced the synchro rings, collets, hub plates, and this broken shim:It seems that the little fella in #7 came from there.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 For the benefit of others who may need to follow the same path, my rebuild cost £480, including parts and VAT.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Thats not too bad!!Now the big question - what make of oil is going back in? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Comma SX 75W-90 GL4 (see #14). This is what CC supplied as their own-brand "Gear Oil" when I built the car.I think the outrageous price of Redline's MTL is completely off the wall.(Incidentally, I've just worked out that R&RT's rebuild cost equates to 1p/mile!)JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 How much is the Redline MTL in the UK John? I normally pay just over CAD$20 or equivalent to £12 or so a litre here in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 About £19 per bottle here (US quart) Google and I'm sure you'll find a deal on 2 bottles, and we also have a discount with Opie too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Doesn't sound too significant, another £10 at most every year or two. I found it a small but definite improvement over the Comma in my 6 speed and my experience with Redline products over many years in various gearboxes was very good. A good price for the repair though, Phil charged me twice that to rebuild my diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Opie sell it for around £22 per bottle. So that makes £40 plus shipping after discount. Ebay suppliers seem to be around £19 - £20 per bottle, delivery included. I guess it's the penalty for importing a US product. For example, the ignition coil on my Honda mower costs £65 in the UK and about $15 in the US.I've used the Comma Gear Oil since new, and the gear change has always been silky smooth. I didn't see much point in switching to another brand. If I could still get it, I'd go for Ford's red gear oil as specified for the Sierra. I used that in the 6-speed on my 1.8K and it was super-smooth.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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