Rich420R Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I'm looking to fit ITB's to my 2015 Caterham 7 420R SV (Duratec engine). The Caterham roller barrel throttle bodies are seriously pricey at 4K. Now I'm new to the caterham world, but in the past have modified other cars and know they ITB's are usually around 2k. I would be interested to hear other owners feedback on the caterham RBTB's and if they believe it was worth the 4K. Then I would also be interested to hear if anyone sourced ITB's elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Besides the roller barrel kit with fittings, filter and TPS, the Caterham kit also includes upgraded injectors (standard ones are maxed out on plenum system), new ECU with RBTB map and fitting by Caterham. These all need to be factored in for Jenvey and other installations, bringing the prices a lot closer, as the non-Caterham installation will probably require a rolling-road tuning session, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I had Titan RBTBs fitted to my 2015 R400 in 2016, by Luke Stevens of Team Leos. Same thing as CC sell but branded Titan.It cost me a little less than CC would have charged at the time but got me better quality injectors, loom, TPS and carbon trumpets.A full RR set up and re map was included. It transformed the car; from an erratic idle it went to rock steady 850rpm tickover, it will pull away with no throttle (albeit slowly!) and is a pleasure to drive in all circumstances. Well worth the cost IMO. Luke was great, gave me options on the various parts, sourced them all, fitted and set up and returned the car running perfectly. No issues at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Toughie Posted February 23, 2021 Leadership Team Share Posted February 23, 2021 #2 Aero, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cateham map is a generic one. Caterham don't, and wont, actually map for the individual car on a RR.And the Caterham ECU is locked, so cannot be mapped by another tuner. Why they only provide locked ECUs is another question to ask at the Webinar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Toughie, your second statement isn't quite correct.Here's a couple of pics of my completed installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Toughie Posted February 23, 2021 Leadership Team Share Posted February 23, 2021 Very nice.But you say your Caterham ECU was not locked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 It was locked, yes. Then unlocked and remapped. There are some who can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrp Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I had my 2017 SV 420R done by Caterham last summer and the cost was just under £ 4k fitted including a Cat bypass, as Scott says they remapped it as well to suit the new set up. The foam filter assembly is now Carbon not plastic so they must of changed it since Scotts was done.Mrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_h Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Manufacturers lock the ECUs to stop people messing around and causing issues then going back and saying something has broken when it’s not a manufacturing problem but something they have caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Mrp, do you mean the backplate for the filter?I went for slightly longer, carbon trumpets so the carbon backplate that CC use wouldn’t have fitted which is why I have the alloy one. The whole lot was sorted out by Luke Stevens and another mate who has been designing engines for years, and designed to fit nicely under the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Toughie Posted February 23, 2021 Leadership Team Share Posted February 23, 2021 Apologies to Rich 420R if this is dragging the discussion off topic, but...I had my engine "refreshed" by Caterham. To their eternal credit, they did it under warranty. I asked them if I could pay to have it remapped while they had the car, but they refused and, unless I completely misunderstood, told me they do not do mapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrp Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Hi Scott, yes the back plateMrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 #11 That doesn’t surprise me Toughie. I’m sure CC wouldn’t want to be individually mapping cars!But there are people out there who can and will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich420R Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 Thanks for all the information guys, I will look into Team Leos as an alternative then, and Rally Prep in Cornwall have also told me they have done similar set ups on west fields and caterhams, and they are 10 minutes from me which is helpful. Good to have a few options to weigh up. It would certainly be good to have a better idle as the car really struggles when cold. It's the noise that I love with the ITB's, and I will likely do a cat bypass as well. I know Evo magazine did both those mod's on their Caterham and they said it was instantly the best sounding car on the fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I fitted the bypass some time after the RBTBs and didn’t notice much of a difference in either noise or performance to be honest. The TBs certainly made it sound better and made a huge difference to driveability and idling. Whereas before it wouldn’t idle till it had been running for a few minutes and even then it would hunt between 12/1400rpm. Now, start it, 5 seconds and it’s steady at 850. Just like a proper car!Whoever you choose make sure they can remap properly, that’s crucial to get the most from the upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Reeves Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 CC cannot re map as they dont have a rolling road . they use the two steves if they need work ( I believe ) and the two Steves have access to re map the ecu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just for the record, there is no reason a 420R in standard form should have problems to idle, from cold or have a drivability issues. There is a minor hesitation, which is mainly noticeable reviving the car in neutral, which is barely noticeable when driving. That said care and attention has to be paid to the TPS position, throttle flap / manifold pressure at idle to get that things right. To get my car spot on I have adjusted the slots a little in the TPS, and it took at least an hour maybe even two before I was happy. But without doubt the RBTBs are a step up, and noise is the real improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich420R Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share Posted February 24, 2021 Good to know everyone rates the throttle bodies.My car really struggles with the idle when cold, it's better started in neutral than in gear but still it cuts off a couple of times on a really cold morning. A few people have told me they had this issue and sorted it with a remap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obodiah Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 I had the cold idle issue after I finished the build of my 420R last year. The throttle body upgrade was always part of the project but because of the lockdown delaying the IVA I asked Stuart at Premier Power to do one of his F225 upgrades with AT throttle bodies and a new ECU which was mapped on the rolling road at Northampton Motorsport. The idle issue has gone and the noise + performance + drivability is fantastic. The setup squeezed out about 230hp with the cat bypass and the map also stays within emissions with the cat in place. It passed the IVA first time in October and I've run it with both the bypass and the cat since then and don't notice any difference on the public roads, I'll keep the bypass for track days. This is an expensive way of sorting out the irritating cold idle but the overall performance gain and drivability improvements are the main benefit. As far as I am concerned the car is a keeper and as i built and will service it myself I'm not too worried about the warranty implications of a non CC upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 As Chris says, the single throttle set up can be set up to run properly but most of the people I know with new kits/factory cars in the past 5/6 years had issues at the beginning and have had to go to some lengths to sort them. I and, I would guess, most who go for RBs don’t do it just to fix the idle!I was never happy with the way the plenum flexed as the the throttle opens/closes either. I’m not sure whether more recent cars still do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Bandit_ Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 I had the Caterham factory RBTB upgrade done from new when I bought the car in December 2020. I just found the standard induction noise a bit, well, quiet! The noise with them fitted was worth it.Unfortunately something has gone wrong with them after 500 miles driving and they're being completely replaced ( I don't know what's gone wrong as they can't tell me - the car was in for a huge list of warranty issues, kangarooing and hesitation at 1500-2500rpm being one of them). All being replaced under warranty by CC and they've been very good sorting all the other issues so I can't complain.However, if I'd bought a car that wasn't new and was out of warranty I'd have gone with the Premier Power F225 upgrade. Stuart is well worth talking to http://premierpowerengines.com/premier-power-f225-upgrade/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Yes it does still flex, but no where near as much as the first plastic version.All I am saying is upgrade to RBs, for the noise and to unlock the drama, basically the right reasons.If you have cold start idle problems, cold or hot hunting, stalling or massive hesitate don't feel forced into upgrading, get what you have working properly. I am more that willing to help get a stock 420R running and starting as it should. That offer also goes to owners with the infamous Sigma 150 or the 360R (basically the cars I have owned) and know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Up Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Chris,Super web site, wish I had consulted prior many a stage with my car! The number plate page is the best I have seen, that should be a reference for CC themselves.Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich420R Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 Thanks again for all the advice guys. I was thinking to get the car to caterham to sort the idle issue anyway, but if doing RBTB's I may as well do it all in one go.Chris that's a brilliant build blog, I'm going to work my way through it as you have a lot of parts I'm looking to fit. Going to check out premier power engines as well for an alternative to caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Toughie Posted February 26, 2021 Leadership Team Share Posted February 26, 2021 If and when you come to consider Premier Power, Stuart is well worth having a chat with. Approachable, friendly, and knowledgeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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