Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted February 7, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted February 7, 2021 If one uses the hub assembly removal method then one should consider this: When was the last time the rear hub bearings were inspected?When was the last time the rear hub bearings were cleaned & re lubricated? Caterham recommend every four years.What condition are the hub grease seals in?The only way to answer any of these questions is to spend the extra half hour per side completely dismantling.Think - after putting everything back together a rear bearing failed then the time saved on the job will have been wasted?As I stated earlier I am a creature of habit trained a certain way so if the short cut suits you then go for it.Of course if one goes the full dismantling route then there is the opportunity to upgrade to the sealed for life hub & bearing assembly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Geoff. Are you saying CC changed at some point to sealed for life bearings? If so do you know when? IIRC my rear bearings in 2015 were the sealed for life type. And if they are how do you clean and regrease them?I must say I’m surprised that you do these but don’t dismantle the shafts which have a much harder time of it and are unlikely to outlast the bearings.I’m not saying that a thorough visual inspection of the shafts isn’t enough, that’s what I do, but I would put the bearings into that inspection too if there’s no noise, play or signs of leaking they’re unlikely to be unserviceable. Unless they were particularly old/high mileage of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted February 7, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted February 7, 2021 According to CC online shop 'sealed for life' bearings & updated lighter hub introduced in 2016. Lighter by 200grams! Fitted these post diff refurb as my car is 2012 vintage with larger hub & double bearings that required re lub every four years as CC recommends.The upgraded bearings are just that -'sealed for life' - fit & forget - no lub or cleaning required. Got to have at least a 15 -20 year life in an average mileage Seven. But like everything checking & listening has no substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Ah, I didn’t know that. Have you a link to that page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted February 7, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted February 7, 2021 https://caterhamparts.co.uk/hub-bearings/5411-hub-bearing-assy-dedion.htmlBut not currently in stock - typical! Redline may have stock. Chris will assemble before dispatching.A worthwhile substitute for the original two taper roller bearing set up in the older hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Where did you get the 2016 introduction date from? What kind of bearing is that? Do you still have to tighten the hub nut to 270Nm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted February 8, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted February 8, 2021 The new lighter hub & bearing assembly was, according to the CC shop site 2016> which seems to have been deleted. BUT my invoice from Redline does state '2016 on'.Type of bearing is more than likely double 'parallel roller' in a pre lubricated sealed race with possibly a Teflon lining to increase efficiency. No lubrication or any other maintenance required = long in service life. The hub/bearing assembly is a straight swop & yes the hub nut torque remains the same. Just some grease & the judicious use of a nylon hammer to get the assembly on the drive shaft end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Interesting - I've never heard of removing and resealing the rear bearings. My car is 96, with the original Sierra bearings and carrier. I replaced the bearings and carrier a couple of years ago when I rebuilt the car with the original roller bearing under a rubber cover - I wasn't aware they'd been upgrade with a sealed bearing, I would have probably fitted these had I known! A 200g unsprung weight saving each side is worth having - noting the newer Dedion ear designs, does anyone know if these are appreciably lighter than the earlier ear designs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Thanks Geoff, I will double check what I’ve got and look at them whenever it’s all stripped again, which hopefully will be a while. The reason I asked about the bearing type was that the new one didn’t look like it would be taper roller, but a standard roller bearing would be a bit limited on axial loading and wouldn’t particularly welcome a high clamping pre load. I wondered if they were still taper roller or perhaps even angular contact balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Further to my last post, after a bit of hunting around it would appear that the 'new' bearing is an NTN double row angular contact ball bearing. Widely used around the world for wheel/hub bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted February 9, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted February 9, 2021 ScottR400D - Thanks for that. So hopefully the upgraded bearings will have a long in service life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 #35: ...an NTN double row angular contact ball bearing.Very informative NTN PDF here.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Thanks Geoff and Scott for teasing out the debate. Defo a consideration for a rear suspension refresh. Maybe next year as doing the front this year! Uprated hub kit, discs etc!Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincslotus7.club Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 In reply to the hub nut question, if they are of the 'peened' type, swap sides to present a new surface to indent & secure. Or, if in doubt as to suitability follow Geoff Brown's engineering stance & carry out a float test! If it does, use again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted February 17, 2021 Area Representative Share Posted February 17, 2021 lincs@lotus7.club #39 - ?? Not sure what you mean by swapping sides as the nuts have left & right handed threads. Near side & of side respectively. If I understand your words correctly & as the vehicle mainly goes in a forward direction it would be unfortunate for the nuts to unwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Think this was a reference to tintops that often use 'staked' hub nuts and are both RH threads PSA often did this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I can't think of any modern tintop that uses left and right hand threads on the axles anymore. I don't think it has any effect on the end of a tight fitting splined shaft, either. The point of maximum torque typically applied to the axle would be in first gear under full throttle, that would cause the right hand wheel to resist the clockwise motion of the shaft slightly in the splines, loosening a right-hand threaded nut if there was any movement. Basically if the thread direction was important, the right hand shaft would have a left hand thread and vice-versa, the opposite of what the car currently has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincslotus7.club Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 In reply to #40 & #41Yes, I've spent over 20 years in the Peugeot world & so was thinking about doing drive shaft nuts & obviously I've not removed a rear one on the 7! As said above #42 the shaft is a splined fit so it just makes different hand threads overkill. That said, I've always found the float test confirms the decision to fit new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Just for reference. The Ford original parts are still available from your local Ford dealer. 6133689 and 6133688 are £16.60 (including VAT) each. The only downside to using the Ford original part is they have changed the spec from 41mm to 42mm, so you may need a new socket. I discovered this last year when I built my car. At the time CC supplied one 41mm nut, in older Ford packaging, and one 42mm nut (with a packing date of November 2017). Now both are now 42mm, one was still packed November 2017 and the other was May 2020 which suggests they are still produced. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonW Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 Thanks everyone, helped greatly by a 2 foot breaker bar with a 70 kilo lump on the end of it, the job is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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