CtrMint Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Hey All, I'm looking for some advice, hopefully, I've done something wrong or someone has a tip to resolve the challenge having been through the same thing.A couple of weeks back I installed the crutch strap kit as supplied by Caterham. It's all fitted fine, the harness is so much better. However, there seems to be a small drawback. The retaining triangle section of the straps which are bolted between the floor and bracket are fouling on the seat rail, it prevents the seat from traveling all the way back. As a result, I've lost around 4 cm of rearward travel on the seat position. I measured between the seat back and the dash on the 420 and 620. The 420 has the crutch strap fitted and there's around 4 cm in it. I've put an endoscope down to have a good look with everything fitted. It all looks fine, nothing daft, just there isn't room. Has anyone else dealt with this? The loss of 4 cm makes a big difference on an S3, the seat feels to far forward now.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Thats odd nothing fouls mine, are the seats in both cars set at the same angle.... adding washers under the front reduces reward travel very quickly as the seat is naturally tipped backwards.Cant visualise which part of the seat is fouling.... and its way to dark windy and wet to go out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 Thanks for the response.I've got some photos on the endoscope, but it's a cheap jobbie from China, so I need to put in a new flashcard as I don't trust the one supplied. Once I've done that I'll post some images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 Hopefully you can see the retaining triangle is fouling on the rail, and stopping it from going further back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Hi Mark, I have different seats and belts to you so I don't know if this is helpful but I have had a look at mine. I have removed the seat base to get a view. The crutch strap mounting points appear to be inbound of the rails so they don't foul. See the photo. Mine is an S3 with lowered floors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Mark,have you routed your straps under the seat or around the side - cant make it out form the photo... they should go directly under the seat ie between the seat runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 Yes I've routed the harness inwards so that it passes under the seat. This is pretty much how I laid it out, the yellow arrow shows where I think it fouls. I have adjusted the buckle backwards so that it doesn't foul under the seat base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 Steve, I think yours shows the buckle, I believe mine is fouling on the retaining triangle.ThanksMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Cant quite make out form you photo mark but it appears that the rear of the runner protrudes a fair way from the back of the seat... my are pretty flush..?For comparission how many Tillet spacer washers are you running under the front and rear between seat and runner (and what thickness) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Yes, that's normal in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Mine aren't....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 I'm not sure how many spacers I have on the seat, between the seat and the rail, I think 1. I don't have any spacers between the floor and the rail. From the pics etc I believe the conflict is occurring at the back of the rail, I'm not sure a spacer can help. I need to find a solution even if it's taking out the strap, having my knees up against the dash is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Does the protruding section of rail serve any function? Can you just chop it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 I'm not sure, you might be able to cut the rail down, but I don't fancy it. I suspect the two sections wouldn't run freely.I'm wondering if it's possible to mount a bar across the two mounting points, then attach the strap to that. Doing so should also the mounts to be move inboard suficiently to clear the rails. Though I'm not about the engineering of that solution, obviously it would need to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 I'm still trying to find the solution to this problem. My next step is to pull the seat out again and see if I can account for Neil's comment stating he doesn't suffer the conflict on his install.Before I do, I've checked the seat assembly diagram. I notice there appears to be 3 possible holes in the seat diagram where the seat attaches to the rail. Does anyone know if these are configurable? i.e. you can use a choice of the 3 and essentially offset the seat forwards or backwards slightly? It would be amazing if that was the solution. Other than that I'm struggling to account for the difference.thanks, really appreciate some support with this, my knees are up against the dash and the bottom of the wheel is rubbing on my legs. it's ruining the drive. But the crotch strap is a massive improvement so really want to solve the issue,thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Paul Richards Posted November 22, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted November 22, 2020 Not familiar with Tillet seat set up, but in the diagram it looks like seat is mounted to the 2 extreme end holes and therefore no alternative. I have leather seats and lowered floors and I did fix a bar across the 2 mounting points. From memory I think I used one "conventional" mount and one from the bar. I'll have a look and try and take a pic if you wish. BM me if you want a pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 Paul, if you could take a pic that would be amazing.I've taken the seat out and runner off. I found I could rotate the inner runner, and use a different set of holes, this moved the seat further back and solved the problem on that side. On the runner with the adjustment mechanism this wasn't possible. I also found the diagram isn't accurate, you cant use the rear most hole as the front mount hole doesn't align with a bolt hole. You need to come forward one at the rear. I think this then causes the excessive movement to the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettJ Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Hi Mark, what if you put the retaining triangle above the space. This should enable the rail to go under the retaining triangle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 Hi Brett,Thanks for your contribution. From a safety perspective, I'm not so sure it's a good idea. I'm assuming the documented installation is designed to spread the horizontal load between the mounting tab and floor. Placing it above might negate that benefit, however I'm not a mechanical engineer so can't be sure. I'd also need to excessively pad the mounting tab with washers and also a new spacer combination to fit that way as the tab has a raised lip on the sides. ThanksMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I'm certain that would actally be safer. The weak point is the thin aluminium floor, which can tear. With the bracket higher up more load is on the steel chassis tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettJ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I agree with you Charles, but I looked in the Assembly guide and Mark has installed it as they show it in the guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 A couple of thoughts on the above...Is it possible that you are pushing the seat back and trapping the harness anchor plate before it has been aligned with its direction of pull? If that were the case then it could just be a case of pulling the crotch straps to align them as you slide the seat back.If the above is not the case and mounting the anchor plate higher up (in line with the chassis fixing) I would just do that. The mount will buckle at the floor mounting point first. At which point it will have a moment on the chassis mount (due to the distance), that will increase the stress on the weld/joint. Assembly instructions are fine but not infallible. If you see a better way of doing something it makes sense to just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The assembly guide is based on the reasonable approach to get the best angle for the straps under the seat. Unfortunately I have see crotch straps tear the floor in extreme conditionsCharlesPS My membership has just expired so will be my last post for a while / for ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The idea is to keep the strap low so it stays clear of the underside of the seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Also, the assembly guide doesn't cover your seat or runners. The runners and seats illustrated are the standard (or R500) Tillets. You have the Tillets introduced with the 620R which have different runners fitted with captive nuts.Has anyone installed the crutch strap with the 620R seats? I installed them on standard Tillets years ago with no problem, then again the amount of movement you get on a Tillet is limited at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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