K Series - Simple Hillclimbing Mods

[KenEvans]

This summer I built myself a De Dion "Roadsport" 7 with the 1.6 K Supersport engine. I've fully intended to hill climb and sprint the car from the word go so it already has an FIA bar and LSD. It comes with the standard Avon ZV1(?)185/60R14 tyres.

 

Before the hill climb season I'd like to buy some bits that are going to help make me a little more competitive on a budget of about £1500 to £2000. Does anybody have any suggestions regarding the intial mods worth doing (eg it has no rear anti-roll bar), better road legal tyres, brakes etc?

 

Ken Evans

[Mike Bees]

Do you have a 6-speed box? If so then I'd save most of that money for when you succumb to the lure of engine upgrades.

 

Rear ARB? I disconnect it for hillclimbs.

 

You probably would do well to change the tyres. Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Position are the current favourite, although only available in 15in and up. Bridgestone Potenza RE720 is similar and available in smaller sizes (see http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/tol_productdata/rpt_model.asp?model_id=212&man=Bridgestone).

 

Mike

[Jason Plato]

I wouldnt bother with any mods just yet , the car is competitive in your std trim at many events ........... just enjoy !!

 

You should remember that saftey equipment , clothing , helmet , license , entry fees - 6 events ? , trailer hire/buy ? and feul to get back and forth will amount to more than £1000 in your first season .

 

I agree with Mike that a 6 speed box is almost vital with the K series on a sprint or hill , although I swear that if I was'nt changing gear so often ( 6 speed S'light ) I would be one second quicker ??!! .

 

dave

 

 

[Glen]

Six-speed equipped doesn't necessarily mean constant gear-changing - this is a false impression. With a six-speed you change gear more frequently because you can, and because it makes a (positive) difference to your rate of progress. You could just as easily make more use of certain ratios and change gear less (the engine still has a range of speeds from idle to 7,000-plus rpm), but you don't because it is not the best way. In other words, if you think you're losing time through shifting too frequently, then don't change so often!

 

Close ratio is associated with peaky engines (being a way around the narrow power band problem) but this does not mean that it is unsuitable for other types of engine. Close ratios also enable short or mid-range shifting, and the revs will always remain within a similar engine speed-range after the shift.

 

I've heard people claim that the six-speed has "too many ratios" for a softer-tuned engine - no-one is forcing the driver to use them all, all of the time. Having the option is a geat joy, however, in my view.

[old captain slow]

Don't know if you've sprinted or hill climbed before, but I started this season as a complete novice and found out that my driving is not as hot as I thought. Before spending too much more, I would suggest you get out there and try it first - see how it handles etc.

 

Good luck - see you next year?

 

C7 CDW

[KenEvans]

Unfortunately I decided not to go as far as the cost of a six speed box, though several people have told me they are great for competiton but not so good for road use. I can see the benefit in the short ratios keeping all the gear steps above 5000 though.

 

It looks like the best thing to do for the first season is to have a set of tyres and wheels for competing only - any other good suggestions besides the Bridgestones suggested by Mike? What about these ACB10's I hear a lot about?

 

It looks too like I don't need to get to excited about anti-roll bars and Watts linkages and the like - though it does seem a little soft to me on the tighter bits.

 

Perhaps I should accept Dave's suggestion and just enjoy it and learn from the first season. :-)

[Alex Wong1697456877]

The bridgestones are thought to be the best tyres for road going classes that usually only allow MSA list 1a tyres. The stickier tyres - Yoko 021/032 and Avon ACB10 are list 1b. In list 1b, the ACB10's are still the best as long as it's dry!

 

Alex

[Mike Bees]

Which series are you going to do Ken? As Alex says, ACB10's are king but are not in List 1A which most roadgoing classes require.

 

Soft is good on the hills!

 

Mike

[KenEvans]

I'll probably be sticking with the roadgoing classes hopefully to limit exposure to the well-develop competition! So it looks like the Bridgestones.

 

I expect to just do the Midlands rounds, Loton Park - 8 miles from home!, Shelsey etc, and as many sprints at Curborough as I can get in.

 

Thanks for your help so far.

[Mike Bees]

I'm toying with the idea of doing some of the Midland rounds next year, see you there!

 

Mike

[Pierre Gillet]

I am tempted by the new Michelin Pilot EXALTO. Has anyone ever used them, and on which tyre list are they?

[Chelspeed]

Not used them but they're list 1A in the 2001 year book.

[Pierre Gillet]

What is the logic about lists 1A and 1B? Since Yokos are road legal, why is it that road going cars are not allowed to use them?

[Steve Day]

Hi Ken (in my opinion)

 

first = Tyres (SO2s seem OK to me or the Toyos Proxes are also good...)

second = training - go to a hillclimb sprint school (prescott / curborough) as learning the correct lines will make a big difference to your times

third = don't worry about the brakes - you'll not be using them much (!) big brakes are allegedly good for racing but less so for sprinting

fourth = try to avoid the events that Mike Bees is in because he's bl**dy quick and it'll just depress you (!)...which events are you doing Mike, it will be nice to see your yellow monster on the hills!

 

fifth = do a season before you spend any real money, then you'll know a little bit more about your car and will spend the £ more effectively !

 

Look forward to seeing you

Cheers

 

 

[DaveK]

Try calling the series organisers of your chosen meetings before you buy your tyres as they are all in the midst of changing for 2001,as the midland rounds could be using list 1b tyres.All the quick caterhams used bridgestone so2 pole positions this year, but you have to get them buffed to 4mm tread depth to get to the soft compound rubberat the bottom of the tread depth,sacrilige i know on a brand new set of tyres!

Changing spring rates to ones more suited for competition use will also make a big difference to times.

Alternatively follow steves suggestion and just go out and enjoy yourself for a year and look at the cars tht do all the winning to get an idea for effective modifications

 

cheers dave

[KenEvans]

Thanks Steve, Dave and Mike - this is all good stuff. What about this Mike Bees bloke then?.........is he in the roadgoing class with his yellow monster??? Gives me something to aim for I suppose!

 

As for buffing so much rubber off the Bridgstones I think I'll take a few thousand miles off them around the roads of Wales - that sounds much more fun and productive to me!

 

Ken

[Number Six]

I wholeheartedly agree with Steve Day about training - on the road it's well worthwhile to do the original HPC course - for hillclimbs I can recommend Prescot - a fantastic day, with like-minded people, they video you and give group critiques at lunchtime and the end of the day. Superb, it will earn you seconds on the hills.

 

I still think it helps to get your braking well sorted - I would go for the James Whiting front set-up (cheapest and just what you need for the hills - retains standard discs, light, AP's are more suited to the track) - I also fitted a Tilton balance bar on my last 7 to obviously try and get all 4 wheels on the brink of lock-up (although naturally the fronts do most of the work) - if I was doing it again I'd go for a Wilwood which gives you more adjustibility. It pays to experiment - also it gives you added confidence when approaching a hairpin flat out knowing that you can (hopefully!!!) leave your braking to the very last minute... again, this will save you tenths over the oposition... Good luck!

 

Arrival

I am not a number, I am a free man!

Listen to Lotus 7 KAR 120C by Booting Accelerator

 

[Steve Day]

Ken

 

Definitely a good idea to wear the tyres in - a couple of track days would do a similar job!

 

Mike Bees has an awesome K series powered 7 (featured in CCC)...he is also a quick driver! something for us all to aim at (times wise!)

 

cheers

 

 

[Mike Bees]

Quick, moi? Steve's hiding his light under a bushell. At Curborough in October he beat John (not Dr) Palmer whilst they were double-driving Steve's car. JP is *quick*.

 

Not sure exactly what I'm going to do next year Steve, probably some rounds of the Midland Hillclimb Champs and some events in the south that are just too much fun to miss (Lydden, Wethersfield, Goodwood).

 

List 1B tyres for the Midland Hillclimb next year? Surely not? That would be fun smile.gif

 

Mike

[Tim Sture]

Ken

 

I'd just like to emphasise what a couple of people have said - ie, just go out and get some experience. I did half a dozen sprints/hillclimbs this year (in the Academy) and reckon I will get a lot of benefit from doing a season with my car as it is (Academy/Graduate spec). I have very little chance of being competitive with other Caterhams (30bhp disadvantage, narrow front suspension, poor tyres) but I reckon that I would be best getting nearer the limits of the car before extending those limits. I think I only really got the most out of the car at one event I did (Gurston - where I finished 3rd in the Academy class, my best result by a long way).

 

However, if I had the money to improve my car (or change to a k-series) I would probably do so - ie, I'm only being sensible because I haven't got the money to be otherwise!

[Jason Plato]

Mike & Steve

 

I'll see you at the Midland too .

 

Dave - less than 3tenths behind JP on 4 events - Jackson .

[Paul Ranson]

List 1B was introduced in the Midland and British Leaders last year for over 2 litre mod-prod saloon two wheel drive. To reduce the gap between a 2wd Sierra Cosworth and Evos and the like.

 

I think it would make sense to open the tyre regulations up for roadgoing kit cars, but List 1B would allow (and therefore require) the very soft ACB10s. This could get expensive, maybe more than a set a year. Perhaps it would be possible to allow Yokohams A032R, A021R, ACB10 medium/hard etc. The type of tyre that one would choose regardless of competition.

 

Paul

[Steve Day]

As Paul says it would be good to be able to use some of the 'softer' compounds (1B tyres) as these would really help with times. I hope this doesn't mean that regs will change during the season though?

 

It'll be great to see Mike / Dave (and anybody else) next season... the Aldon HSA is quite well supported and pretty competitive, so it's fun. I believe that The Midland Hillclimb championship is even more competitive?

 

Yes, Mike I was delighted to beat JP and this was really as a result of getting to know the car AND circuit better over the season. In fact my time on October 15th was another tenth quicker (on a damp track) just because I got the various bits more 'right' than before. So, as in most things, this shows that practise will improve performance.

Cheers

Merry Christmas!

[Jason Plato]

Whats the address for Aldon HSA championship regs ??

 

ta

dave

[Number Six]

It's in here somewhere Dave... http://www.ukmotorsport.com/uk_historic.html

 

Arrival

I am not a number, I am a free man!

Listen to Lotus 7 KAR 120C by Booting Accelerator