goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hi all,My K Series CSR has developed a lighting problem recently. First up, I've changed both 15A fuses for Main Beam and Dip Beam, but that had no effect.Symptoms Position 1 on the 3-way light switch, no lights are on - as expected. Position 2 on the 3-way light switch, the side lights are on - as expected. Position 3 on the 3-way light switch, only the side lights are on - not expected. I would expect the Dipped Beam to be on. Keeping Position 3 and toggling the Main Beam 2-way switch does nothing. However, using the Main Beam "flasher" successfully flashes both Main Beams.So, for some reason, the Dipped and Main Beams aren't working as expected on either headlamps. I do notice a "click" coming from within or near the fuse box when the main light switch is toggled between P2 and P3.Anyone seen this before who could point me in the right direction please?Many thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 Did they used to operate normally? Any recent work nearby?...Do you have a multimeter and a wiring diagram? If you'd like the latter please send me a Private Message with your email address and details of the Seven....Amended following #17 below.Inspect the wiring and connection on the headlamp terminal of the three way switch... is it connected?Check voltage on the output terminals as the switch positions are selected.If 1 and 2 seem OK check that the light relay(s) is well seated and doesn't appear cooked or bulgy and that the terminals aren't damaged. Then swap it for another and test the headlamps.Inspect the wiring and connection on all of the terminals on the main/dip switch... are they connected?Then the voltage at the input terminal.Then the same on each of the two output terminals as the switch positions are selected....Happy New YearJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 My K Series CSR...I'm confused. A K Series CSR would be a rare beastie indeed. Could you clarify the model, year and engine?(I suspect JK's advice will be relevant either way!) JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Follow the 12V to main light switch, then dip/main switch, then to connectors in lamps. Maybe both the dip filaments have failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hi John,Certainly :).It started life in 1997 as a Roadsport but was then upgraded to a Supersport R by Caterham about a year later. It has the R300 ECU, 1.8 K Series engine, 6 speed box, and the Apollo rocket thing. The Firecracker Yellow paint is wonderful :). Are these really that rare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hi Jonathan,Thanks for the detailed reply. I do have a multimeter, but not sure what to connect where. More info greatly appreciated .I bought the car at the start of summer and the lights worked as expected. Not sure when they started misbehaving as I've only really be doing day driving. I have a pair of Philips H4 X-Treme Vision bulbs that I'd planned on using to upgrade the lights. However, I've not tried fitting them yet as it seemed unlikely that both bulbs would fail at the same time. I'll give them a go though. Is there a trick to getting the front off the headlight housing so I can access the main bulb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 Engine off, ignition off, but battery connected.For each of the voltage tests you need to select a suitable DC voltage range, something like 0 to 25 V. Add a photo of the meter if you can't see how to do that.Then put one of the meter probes on a good earth, and the other on the terminal or wire that you are testing. The display should read something like 12 V wherever you want power. Practise on the battery terminals to see that display as you touch the probes on.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 If that is your photo, you have opened it ok. Remove plug and slide rubber boot off. Then unclip H4 bulb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Are these really that rare?Thanks for the info. No, a K Supersport-R isn't especially rare, but you said it was a CSR -- hence my confusion.Indeed, I had one myself, except in red:I suspect your problem lies somewhere downstream of the lights relay, as the click you hear suggests the relay is operating. As others have said, check for 12v at various points along the circuit, and especially around the dip/main toggle switch.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hi John,Now I'm confused . I though CSR stood for Caterham Supersport R? Mine even has it in the number plate (from previous owner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 Can you confirm that the failure occurred before you started taking the headlamps apart?ThanksJonathanPS: I wouldn't change the lamps until I knew that everything was working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 A CSR used to be at the top of the CC (UK) range:An example.They came with a different chassis, independent rear suspension, a 2.3 Duratec engine and a hefty price tag. Considered by some as the ultimate 7.If it helps, I used to refer to my Supersport-R as an "SS-R".JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I forgot to ask...Do you have a Handbook for your car? If not, just send me a Private Message with your email address and I'll send you a PDF.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hi Jonathan,Yes, only took the lamps apart this afternoon. Noticed the problem with the lights earlier in the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Re #13, YHM.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Here's a diagram of the headlight wiring:- Note that the flasher switch bypasses the relay and dip switch so will still work with faults present in the primary path.The main lighting rocker switch energises the headlamp relay, which in turn feeds unfused +12v to the dip/main switch. As you're able to hear the relay operate, the main switch is almost certainly o.k. and the fault lies somewhere in the path from +12v through the relay contacts and the dip switch.Possible faults include:- Relay not making good contact in its socket because the terminals have been pushed out of position in the plastic base. Relay contacts burnt out. Dip switch failed internally or loose connections (- even with all wires disconnected the flash will still work...)Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Excellent, thanks @bjw. Can you tell me where the relay is and what it looks like please? Just had a thought... is there a bank of them behind the fuses? If so, do I just pull individual ones out and check for corrosion?I also replaced one of the H4 bulb, but that didn't change anything.Here's some data from multimeter readings I took at various pins using various switch positions. P1, P2 and P3 relate to the 3 positions of the main light switch. I'm not sure what to infer from it, but hopefully it'll give someone some ideas. Component pin p1 p2 p3 flash Main Light Switch Top 0 0.03 12.51 Main Light Switch Middle 12.82 12.54 12.54 Main Light Switch Bottom 0 12.22 12.22 Dip Switch Top 0 0.02 0.02 11.3 Dip Switch Middle 0 0.02 0.02 0.31 Dip Switch Bottom 0 0.02 0.02 0.31 Passenger Headlight Top 0 0.02 0.02 0.31 Passenger Headlight Nearest Car 0 0.02 0.02 11.54 Passenger Headlight Nearest Wheel 0 0.02 0.02 0.06 Some assumptions I've drawn from this are: Top pin on main switch is for Head Light Middle pin on main switch is power from battery Bottom pin on main switch is Side Light Pin nearest car on passenger headlight is for Main Beam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 Well done.That looks as if there's no feed to the main/dip switch.Assuming that you had a good look at the connection to that switch now check the relay as above. Layout is probably:Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Thanks Jonathan. What do I do with the relay? Just pull it out and wipe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Make sure they are all pushed home ... they do work loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 See if it's well seated before you pull it (crossed with Ian's). Then pull it out and have a good look at the body and the terminals. And the exposed base into which it was plugged.If one of the other relays is identical you can swap that in.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 OK, found the relay. Removed it - it looked fine. Gave it a rub with a cloth then pushed it firmly back in. Made sure the other relays were also sat firmly. No change, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 Crossed post.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodcoffeecode Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Good idea Jonathan. I'll check and swap in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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