David Brown Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Car wouldn’t start some weeks ago, immobiliser disarmed, engine turning over fine. No time to check it as had to take wheels off and put them in other car to get tyres changed. It wouldn’t start on return so checked fuel pump fuses which were clean and ok. Felt it may have been fuel pump but broke fuel line and plenty flowing. Removed plug to check for spark and as I was too far to check it, got wife to press the starter and it started on 3 cylinders! Tried starting virtually every day since and been fine. Final wash and clean today and won't start again. Re-checked fuel and spark and no fuel. Remembered that I can’t recollect hearing the pump. Stripped the boot and can’t see how to get the honeycomb floor out making access to the pump very difficult. Tried again and heard pump priming and car started!Not sure what to do with Saturday departure looming. Is it a standard pump on the CSR? Should I try to get a spare to take with me? How can you check power to the pump as connections look unusual. Haven't checked connections on the inertia switch so suppose I should check them. Desperately looking for advice or suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted September 4, 2019 Member Share Posted September 4, 2019 How can you check power to the pump as connections look unusual. Have you got a wiring diagram? Let me know if you need one.And a multimeter?...Previous discussions of CSR fuel pump. Includes a similar story caused by problems with the inertia switch....Steve Marsh's CSR resources, including the fuel pump module sub loom wiring.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Washed car .... look for vulnerable electrical connectors under bonnet louvres. Could it be related to immobiliser not disarming this time ? It cuts the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Thanks both. SM25, immobiliser definitely disarmed and previous non-start wasn’t after washing. Jonathan, have wiring diagram and multi meter but can’t see how to get into the wiring going into the pump. Inertia switch wiring look sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamQ Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I had a similar sporadic problem on a Roadsport a while ago. The first cause was a corroded fuel pump fuse. And then I had trouble caused by a bad earth connection at the connector near the pump (I think that was self-inflicted from when I'd been shoving a multimeter probe in there to check the earth - I think I splayed the female connector just enough to cause a dodgy contact).In the meantime, I bypassed the inertia switch by just joining the wires that go into it together.FWIW ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Have almost convinced myself that pumps either work or don’t, not intermittently, and the problem must be electrical. Difficult to trace when it’s working but will look again at the connections at the inertia switch and fuses. Anyone suggest how the boot floor can be removed as it looks as though it may need the roll bar removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 If it is bonded in with sealant, you have to cut through the sealant ! My SV floor is in two parts, both retained with screws, and the larger aluminium part can just be manoeuvred out with the roll bar in place. But ... I know the CSR boot is a very different beastie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted September 5, 2019 Leadership Team Share Posted September 5, 2019 If you want to access the top of the tank/fuel pump area then you need to remove only the rear-most part of the two-piece boot floor. You should be able to get it out without removing the rollover bar (well, I managed to!).James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Got the large (Rear) part of the floor released but can’t see anyway of getting it out. Cape & corner it just jams on the chassis tubing. Hoping that I don’t have to replace the pump, or if I do that it can be jiggled past the floor. Would be much easier if it was in two pieces Going to speak with Darren at CC to see if they often replace pumps for intermittent faults and if they have one in stock. Going to re-check the immobiliser and fuses first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Pump is an expensive lump if you are not certain ! Hope you can tilt the floor enough to gain access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted September 5, 2019 Member Share Posted September 5, 2019 Going to re-check the immobiliser and fuses first. I'd include the inertia switch (as above) and all of the connectors that might affect the fuel pump. NB earths as well as feeds.I don't know about CSRs but I wouldn't assume that the immobiliser kills the fuel pump: "A little bit of experimentation also settles once and for all an argument that I’ve had with several people over the years: THE IMMOBILISER DOES NOT DISABLE THE FUEL PUMP!"Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Despite Revilla's certainty, the immobiliser on a CSR definitely cuts out the fuel pump. I’m sure it will also cut out the spark but just confirmed fuel pump definitely cut. So my problem may be the immobiliser and having spoken to Darren he confirms pumps usually either work or fail. Big decision, Caterham or wife's MX5 to France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEK Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I recently had fuel pump stop working, not CSR but S3, just happened when I went to fill with fuel, but it was 12.00 and it was. France so I guess car wanted a lunch break. Anyway I was able to send 12v down the wire to the pump from a connector block in the engine bay. The pump worked, so was able to quickly rule pump out. I could equally have done it from the relay i.e. take relay out and push 12v live into the wire from relay holder.In the end it turned out to be a compromised (high resistance) connection in the engine bay plug. Quick scrape and refitte, on my way again at 13.00, so was just a request from car for lunch break :-)Been fine ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I unplug all engine bay connectors each year and drop a few drips of WD40 or ACF50 into the connectors to try and minimise the risk of corrosion. Just unplugging them helps scrape off any light corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 This is the top of my fuel pump How do I get access to check I’m getting 12v feed? Never seen connectors like these before, do they prise off? Does removing the 6 screws allow the pump to be pulled out or is that just a cover with the pump underneath? All in case I need to do roadside repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 First photo post - that was easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian.britnell Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Hi Davidi have a CSR and have recently taken the pump out ( small leak around seal ). Follow the loom away from the pump and you should find a multi pin connector, mine was down in front of the tank strapped to the chassis.If you remove the six screws the pump comes out as one i.e. That is not just a cover, if you have to take the pump out it is a bit of a fiddle .... the pump does not sit directly below but at an angle of about 45 deg.i may have a photo of a new pump if that helps ..... will have to work out how to post it.A new pump is over £300 Good luck, Regards Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian.britnell Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Thanks Adrian, as they say a photo is worth a thousand words (I think). Hopefully not the pump. I’d you manage to get the boot floor out. I can’t see how it’s done and just hope, if I have to replace it, that it can be wiggled past the floor. Did the pump come with a new seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Adrian, do you still have the part number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted September 5, 2019 Leadership Team Share Posted September 5, 2019 David - you seem to be having more of a struggle to get the rearmost piece of boot floor out of the car than I did, so let me ask: do you have a standard rollover bar because, if you do, it is simply four bolts and less than 10 minutes to remove it? Then you will have plenty of access to the pump.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Thanks James, yes it’s a standard roll bar. I never checked but assumed it was the same as the one on my k, which needed the suspension dropped and a vertical bolt removed from above the shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian.britnell Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Davidpart numbers printed on a label on pump :- 19780189931 and 53036/260. I got it from Redline ( excellent service)To get the honeycomb section of the boot floor out on my CSR is a bit tight, I strap up the roof stays ( to give more space ) and the section in question will just squeeze out sideways to the left.p.s yes the pump came with the sealRegards Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 Thanks all for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted September 6, 2019 Member Share Posted September 6, 2019 part numbers printed on a label on pump :- 19780189931 and 53036/260. I got it from Redline ( excellent service)53036/260 was used by Caterham Parts in Japan.Big decision, Caterham or wife's MX5 to France.You've got access and seen the relevant parts that might be causing problems. You've got a wiring diagram and a multimeter. I'd now see if you can get a replacement pump where and when you want it. And check the relevant wires and connectors.And then take the Seven and a few more electrical bits than usual. :-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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