rob.mcc45 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hi folks,I have just joined the club as I’m searching for my first Caterham, after several years of dreaming about it. My question is whether the dry sumped 420 is more hassle to live with regarding oil changes etc. compared with the 360 wet sump?My ideal spec. is:SV in Ballistic Orange Duratec engine 5 speed boxCarbon dash and front wingsleather seats15’’ wheelsThanks Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Welcome.What are you planning to use it for... road, track?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.mcc45 Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hi Jonathan, I new I would miss something out but it would be for touring, the odd track day and general drives around Devon, where I live. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russjones Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hi wet/dry sump - oil changes are not affected by that but by usage - the more you use your 7 and the more ‘stressful use’ defines your oil changes - usual rules.there is a benefit Re general ground clearance which some believe can assist them 360 come with dry sumped if specc’d so you will find them aroundif it is mostly road then 360 is enough but as you use it more you will always want more and get upgrades bothering you if you feel that wayso 420 to 500 to 620 will be your next question anywayIf you can drive the nuts off it already get a 420if you are new to 7s then 360 is enough for public roads if mostly doing those as you will find yourself enjoying that enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.mcc45 Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hi Russ,Thanks for your reply, I understand the potential for upgrading but I was more concerned about the reliability and just generally oil level checks with a dry sump. I have seen numerous posts about concerns with oil levels and how to check. Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 You are fretting about nothing, there's a method of reliably checking oil levels, but frankly oil consumption is very rarely an issue, certainly not with Sigmas and Duratecs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russjones Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 With Tazio hereWith any spirited driving especially race/track driving I would be more concerned with oil starvation with a wet sumped car There are no issues checking dry sumped cars at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I don’t see any advantages at all with the 360 other than perhaps cost, which isn’t to much anyway. It’s the same engine, so no weight or characteristic advantages. 219/220bhp is still comfortable for the Duratec. Oil measuring and changing is easy with the DS and it give a clear advantage on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.mcc45 Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Thanks guys,bringing the 420 in to the mix widens my options, hopefully I will find something soon. Cheers Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 The Duratec wet sump will contribute to oil starvation on the big ends, and at some point, usually in a very remote location will kiss the tarmac which turns it into a dry sump after about 12m....... The Raceline DS set up is a no brainer and affords an extra 32mm ground of clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Rob I have owned both, although in 420 form only briefly. For me it's 420 all day long because the 360 engine character is missing something. I suspect it's the difference between stock road cams, and upgraded cams. Somehow all the characteristics people want in their tin top road cars seem out of place in a Caterham. I would actual pick the 310 over the 360, assuming I had no intension of upgrading, I think the Sigma cars suit my driving style, or to put that another way, I haven't got used to my duratec car yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted July 19, 2019 Area Representative Share Posted July 19, 2019 As written previously no probs with oil changes/consumption with dry sump 420. Just the extra finger scavenge filter on the side to remove & clean.Have owned a home built dry sump R400D (220 bhp) for six years. Always driven very enthusiastically once warmed up. Oil (5w/50) changed annually along with main filter & removal of finger filter. No problems so far.....2.0L Duratec in 210/220 bhp form seems unbustable unless the driver totally lacks mechanical sympathy. Wish I had opted earlier but now I have never ever regretted the ££££s.Definitely the weapon of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 No comments on the wheels yet - I would personally go for 13"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.mcc45 Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Thanks for all the reassuring comments and I have had a comment via pm about the wheels Garth, so will take that onboard. Cheers Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Kay Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 If you'd like an Assembly Guide and Owners Handbook please send me a Private Message with your email address.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hi Rob,I went through the same process, in fact I originally ordered a 360, then changed the order to a 420 to gain the extra ground clearance in the sump. I was fearful of it catching. I'm certainly no expert either, but I've done an oil change on my 420 and it's easy, just a few more steps, so I wouldn't let the additional complexity put you off. I'm not sure about engine characteristics and their differences, the 420 is nice though, and you get used to the performance, so I'd say go as quick as you can comfortably afford.I also went 13" with 8" at the rear, I personally prefer the rim design, I feel the 15" looks too modern for the 7 shape. Additionally, I opted for 13" as the larger tyre side wall should give a more compliant ride, well that's the theory I've no information to support that other than experience changing wheels on other cars. I also bought the R pack, so wanted to give the ride the best chance on road assuming the R pack suspension to be stiffer than the S.Having bought and built my first 7 in the last 12 months, I would say the greater or more important question would be the difference between the R and S pack. This comment is based mainly on my experience of the 420R LSD. There are far more informed owners on here than me, however in my experience, the current LSD is rather noisy, so you might prefer an open diff. Maybe other owners could offer additional information here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Having owned a 270/310 and a 360, recently upgraded to 210bhp i would also looking at the sigma engined cars, whilst not as powerful or torquey as Duratec’s, aside from trackdays they feel just as fast, and you can keep your right foot planted for longer, Duratec means younhave to back off sooner. Also sigma engined 310 is a sweet motor, similar to old K series, likes to be revved. Duratecs have much more grunt but for road work they arent as sweet. Duratec comes into own on track when power sees you through for passing more powerful cars.360 and 420 (i upgraded from 180bhp to 210bhp) is noticeable but not that significant, both are VERY fast and more than enough for road work, you will always have to back off. 360 has wet sump and moa oil/water cooler which works well. When i enquired with engine builders about upgrading to dry sump i was told that plenty of people race wet sump cars and they are fine. Having tracked car quite a few times now, i am not worried. Main advantage of dry sump is improved ground clearance but at £2.5k i can live with this.You mention going for an SV, my 310 was SV but 360 an S3, i am 5’11” and 90kg. For touring and road use would recommend SV just for comfort and convenience, especially if taking a passenger. S3 is a tight fit and good for track days, but unless you are lightly built ultimately uncomfortable. I would recommend leather seats over tillets, way more comfortable ans still supportive.R or S pack?, main difference is LSD which i suspect most drivers dont need, you really need to cane it for this to start mattering, even with a duratec on 8” rears. Noise wise they bang a bit but nothing bothersome. R doesnt come with weather gear as standard, S does. S also comes with a heater which is a MUST have. Point being S is a lot cheaper and mote practicalSomething else to bear in mind is that Caterhams are usually a 2/3rd car and get very lightly used, if you spend big money on overspeccing car you might find yourself deciding to sell it sooner, whereas if it doesnt owe you too much, more likely to keep it longer? Dont overlook a nice 310 SV with a 6 speed box, could be the sweet spot of the range? (Think this is what i would go for next time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.mcc45 Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 Wow,What an amazing and helpful response from everyone from my first ever post on BC. I have read them all and will be using the information to help make my decision. As I’m buying used there will always have to be compromises but my main objective will be to get the base car right, other minor things can be changed in time. Thanks Jonathan for the offer on the build guide etc. I will be in touch once I have secured a car. Thanks again Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Re the manual, Caterham are currently working on a revised 420 manual, in the Ikea style as it’s known, the type with mostly diagrams. It was due for release earlier in the year, it reached QA, but has been delayed sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Welcome aboard!I have no experience of the Sigma cars, but I had a 1.8K Supersport-R (160bhp, 6-speed, roller-barrels) for many years, and then moved to an R400 Duratec (both as kits).The thing I missed most about the K was the sweet and highly revvable engine. So, if the 310 is the same, that would make it a very attractive choice. As for the R400 (220bhp, roller-barrels, 6-speed, wet sump, and LSD), I just love it for its sheer poke and all-round capability. Both my cars were S3, a tight fit for my 90+kg and 1.79m, but as I hardly ever carry passengers, that's no problem. Besides, I really like the original 7 dimensions. And for me, leather seats and a heater every time.My R400D is probably a mix of the current 420R and 420S specs. I do a lot of touring, so wanted a windscreen. Some owners regard the 6-speed as overkill on a Duratec, but I find it utterly delightful. Sure, it means a buzzy motor on motorways, but it's perfect for the twisty bits.Re manuals, you probably know that you can download the 2019 IKEA-style version 1.2 (for Sigmas) and the older (2015) text-style Duratec version from CC's website. And JK is the go-to source of documentation for earlier cars.Hope you find your ideal car soon...JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 As you live in the SW, have you considered Millwood for your second-hand purchase? Jon is a top guy and highly regarded for all things 7. I'm sure he'd advise you, and find you the ideal car.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Batty Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Have bought one kit had it built for me but did not keep it long present car is sigma 150: which I find enough for road use ,,and car is a SV to me is a must for touring , looked at buying a new kit five years ago went to caterham midlandsHad a test drive in a couple of dif cars then had a ride in the car I bought ,,thought can save few thousand pounds get a nice motor have just driven and drive away and use so bought it , unless you want to build your own think about second hand one with low miles nut make it an SV derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschraider Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I’ve had a 125 Sigma and currently a 420. The extra ground clearance of the dry sump on the 420 makes a big difference, I was forever clonking the sump on the Sigma. Personally, it took about 18 months of road use to get to the point of needing more power in the 125 and the cost of upgrading was going to be huge; hence why I went 420. 13” wheels “look right” for Caterhams, the 15” Orcas are too “modern”. Yu may also want to consider the “upgraded” 4 piston brakes if you go down the 420 route; I’ve found them to be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.mcc45 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Update*driving*I am now the proud owner of a 420R, with 13'' wheels, thanks for the help and advice.Jonathan, I think your mail box is full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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