NOW FIXED - Indicators stopped working - (two broken wires in the 'column to curly-wurly' joints)

[Shortshift]

As above, all four indicators have stopped working and a check of all of the obvious things has so-far failed to produce an improvement.  One minute all was well, the next minute everything was dead.

Car is a 2012 R500D with the Stack dash, Savage-style push switches and indicator buttons/LED tell-tales mounted on the steering wheel.

Interestingly, the hazards work normally - including with audible beep and correct illumination of the steering wheel mounted LEDs.  I've checked fuses and relays - all OK or no difference when swapped out.  I've played with all known failure points in the wiring (particularly the joins to the curly-wurly column-mounted cable) but without success.

Any ideas?

James

[Wrightpayne]

With the old style switches, cycling the hazard switch on and off a few times usually cures the issue.

Ian

[Shortshift]

Thanks Ian - but I don't think this applies to the Savage-style switches in the R500D.  I did, however, try this yesterday 'just in case', but (as expected) it didn't improve matters.

James

[SM25T]

Checked wires to indicator and hazard switches ?

[ScottR400D]

Could be a fault in the main control board. 

My 2015 R400 has the same dash and had a fault in 2016 that saw the hazards and indicators come on and off randomly. 

I checked the wiring and switches but the fault was on the main board, which is attached to the bulkhead under the dash. 

It’s subject to quite a bit of vibration because it’s just bolted solidly to the bulkhead. I remounted mine to fit it on rubber AV mounts which also makes it much easier to remove. 

INSTRUMENTATION CIRCUIT BOARD - R500/SEVEN 485 DURATEC

£207.05 VAT incl.

 
£172.54 VAT excl.

Reference:  39L059A

[Shortshift]

Thanks Scott.  That wouls also fit with the 'sudden failure' that I experienced.  But not a cheap fix...

Can you tell me - was it easy to access and remove the control board?  Sounds like another session, upside down with my head in the footwell and my legs sticking out over the rollover bar!

James

 

[ScottR400D]

Well it is a bit like that! 

There are 3 or 4 connectors to undo from the board. Can’t remember if they have catches but don’t remember any issue in undoing. 

Main problem is that it’s fastened to bulkhead by 4 x M5 (IIRC) C/S screws coming in from the engine compartment. They’re hidden by the heater! There were captive nuts on the board brackets  

First time I changed mine I drained the coolant and removed heater but you don’t need to. Loosen the heater, pull forward and you can access the screws.

Fitting is the reverse......

The first replacement I got was damaged in transit on the mounting bracket. I fitted it which proved the fault on the first board then replaced it again with another from CC. Bit tricky because new boards didn’t have captive nuts!

That’s when I fitted it with 4 12mm M/F anti vibration mounts. The original screws now fit these to the dash and the board sits on the studs of the mounts fastens by nuts and washers. 

Hope that makes sense. 

Now it would be a 15 min job to change. Unplug, remove the nuts and replace. No need to go under the hood!

 

 

[Shortshift]

Thanks Scott.  Fancy coming round to do mine??!!

Seriously, though, that's a great help if it does prove to be the board that needs replacing.  Although, seeing that there's a diagnostic port on the board, and that it's probably just a mounted relay that's gone, I am wondering whether it can be repaired once removed.

James

[ScottR400D]

Might be M4 screws and AV mounts! Don’t have my car here at the moment to check. 

[ScottR400D]

Just saw your last post!

it really isn’t too bad a job. I’d gladly help but I’m a bit busy helping someone else do his RMS over next few days. 

There is a diag port and presumably the board could be fixed. It’s heavily potted so might be tricky. Not my field, and mine was under warranty when it failed. 

I did buy another board which I have as a spare. As they don’t fit that dash anymore I though that sooner or later they’ll run out of boards!

 

[Shortshift]

Thanks Scott.  I just found your original thread and the helpful photo of your anti-vib mounted board.

You also mentioned that you have the wiring diagrams; any chance you could let me have a copy of whatever you have, please?  Email might be easiest -   james@jbatchelor.co.uk.  No worries if it's too much faff...

James

 

[ScottR400D]

I have an original thread?! Can you point me to it?

 

[ScottR400D]

Found it! I remember that now, I'd forgotten. 

Anyway, the last post shows my final solution, quite neat I think. 

I haven't got a wiring diagram for the board itself, just the overall, which presumably includes it. I'll have a look.

 

[ScottR400D]

The wiring diagrams I have are the last pages of the assembly manual back in 2015. I can't see the board itself on there.

Do you have them? 

[Shortshift]

I don’t, actually.  I guess they are available on the web somewhere but if you have them in a form that’s easy to send across, that would be great.

James

[ScottR400D]

Pm me and give me your e mail and I’ll mail the whole manual. 

[Shortshift]

Thank you - pm sent.

James

[Shortshift]

Right - problem solved.

A failure of TWO (of the five) wires at the joint between the cable that emerges from the steering column (wheel mounted switches on the R500) and the curly-wurly wire that then connects to the control board that ScottR400D mentioned.

The thing that threw me was the co-incident failure of two wires; had just one indicator stopped working then a wire failure would have been a more obvious diagnosis.  Anyway, I found the two failures by checking for electrical continuity from the steering wheel, working through the pins and sockets in the column connector, then down to the 6-pin connector at the end of the curly-curly - and that’s where the two discontinuities showed up.  

To have two wires fail at the same point and time seemed to be so unlikely... until I stripped back the insulation around the wires and saw the state of the original joints from when the car was first built - a proper dogs-dinner of a job.

Anyway - diagnosis made and hopefully all will be fixed with some neater soldering and better support for the joints later on today.

Thanks to all for input and advice.  Glad it turned out to be something quite simple in the end.

James