S.Tanner Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Do I take it from the previous posts on this forum and the chit chat, that because I have a (EU3) VVC that any type of upgrade similar to the Supersport R is not possible? Any comments / suggestions would be welcome if there are other possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 hello The best thing you can do if you want to keep the vvc is: Fit the 52mm diam alloy TB Port the head Speak to Dave Andrews about his new exhaust cam Change your eu3 against an eu2 (the eu2 can cope up to 180bhp) And you will end up with 170-175bhp Or Fit a supercharger and you can get around 220bhp easy Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 If you buy an SLR/R400 roller barrel upgrade kit it will fit to the engine without needing to take the head off but the VVC cams will need to be replaced as the basic MBE ECU included with the kit doesn't have the ability to operate the hydraulics. You will have to fit a pair of conventional operation Piper cams. The 275H profile can be fitted without having to take off the head as the stock VVC springs should be safe and they will use the std tappets. You may even be able to use 285H but this would give you an engine with full on R400 performance which leaves the std bottom end of the engine looking a bit fragile. The Caterham roller upgrade kit includes throttles, air filter, injectors, regulator, wiring loom and MBE ECU for around £1800 (I think). The cams will be £335 + £150 for vernier pullies to time them correctly and £94 for the Piper VVC blanking kit. You'll also need either a distributor or ask caterham v nicely for their latest EU3 compatible wiring loom and ECU configuration, I'd go for the latter. Externally the engine will look almost exactly the same as a Supersport R factory EU3 engine (aprt from the Piper blanking plates, which you could polish back to bare ali to make them less conspicous) You will probably need to get this kit fitted and the ECU mapped to suit by a professional outfit. Fitting isn't very difficult and shouldn't take very long, for mapping you should speak to SBD who are factory agents for MBE and will be able to advise on time and cost for mapping. This would be quite a nice conversion which would leave you with more future upgrade paths (port the head, fit stronger pistons = rev higher, hairier cams etc sky the limit). On the other hand check out http://members.aol.com/DVAPower/ who can do the same conversion with aftermarkt parts in one package cheaper... BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 On the EU2 vs EU3 front, you will find that the EU3 ECU isn't as agressive in its settings as the EU2. This is because the EU3 (MGF/25) cars have better airboxes and exhaust systems and have better emmisions. The way to get around this is to change the ECU to part no NNN000100. This is the first Trophy MGF version and is quite fruity (thats a technical term, honest). You may be able to get your ECU re programmed with this calibration if you speak to the right people at PTP? To fully make use of this agressive cal you need to skim your cylinder head to 10.8:1 compression ratio. On the other hand I may be able to get you the ECU and 52mm throttle 2nd hand. I have them in my car now which I've agreed to sell to someone else, unfortunately the other party told me he wanted to back out of the deal and would be selling on the parts through the Lotus BBS... Get in touch if you are interested. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Ah Bob, me first for your TB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 The last VVC kit conversion used a 52mm TB, ported head and better exhaust cam coupled with a 4-2-1 manifold, it retained the stock ECU and VVC mechs. This made 179BHP and 142ft/lb in an Elise. Typically outputs are better in a Caterham because the exhaust is less restrictive. There is also a solid cam kit conversion which gives around 190BHP and uses TBs, Emerald ECU, and BP285H equivalent cams that work with the stock springs. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom7 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Oily, I am interested in a spec of engine that can achieve 179bhp with a plenum. - How did it run / drive? To replicate this spec on a 1.8 with a VHPD head, what cams, head work, ecu etc. is required, Do you know if DVA does a kit that achieves this output but could retain a plenum? This is about the maximum I would want to subject my standard bottom end to. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 It ran perfectly on the plenum, but bear in mind that it's a VVC and the effective cam duration at low RPM is only around 245 degrees since the cam duration and timing is variable. On a non variable inlet cam of 275 or so degrees (required to make this output), the idle and progression would be very fussy. You would only need very modest head work and BP285H cams to over acheive this level. I expect you could achieve it on the stock head with stock springs and the new 'near BP285H' profiles. If you wanted a good idle and progression then you would need TBs, a plenum would give a heavy idle and progression. A quick and dirty port together with the K04 kit would do the trick, the kit includes an Emerald, a set of DTH TBs, cams of your choice and all gaskets/seals etc to fit them. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 related question, how would a similar setup run with the following spec.? Idle, driveability, likely power output? 52mm body on standard plenum emerald VHPD Head 1.8 injectors standard 1.8 bottom end supersport cams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 The SS cams are pretty mild so peak BHP wont be startling, 160-165, but torque should be very good 135-140. Idle and progression should be as normal, it could probably tolerate something a bit more aggressive in the cam department such as 623 profiles and still have a good idle and progression. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.Tanner Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Bob, Thanks for the info, although some of the more technical bits were a bit over my head! If I was to go for the upgrade you suggest, who would / could undertake the work...any suggestions. Stewart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 For the Roller Barrel Upgrade:- To actually fit and time the camshafts and replace the inlet manifold is a straightforward operation. A competent local garage should be able to do the work. Once the bits are fitted the engine management wont be optimised and will need to be set up correctly on a rolling road. If you use Oily's suggested "near 285s" then the management will be very close to optimium as these "285"s are very close in spec to the R400/VHPD cam. You can probably drive the car to a rolling road to get the mapping perfected, unfortunately you'll have to erase the ECU and start again from a blank cal as Caterham will have locked it at the factory to protect their settings. (Although a certain Mr A Webb may be able to crack the PIN code???). For the 180BHP VVC upgrade:- Getting a VVC engine set up properly is not simple, when Rover have issues with cylinder heads they throw them away and fit new heads with the cams already fitted and set up. The only people I'd trust to modify the VVC motor is DVAPower and perhaps more professional outfits such as Raceline/Motobuild or even full on Race engine builders (Schneider/Wilcox/Janspeed etc). I'll mail you later. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb905 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 My DVA VVC 7 is in the process of being run in, so watch this space for the RR runs in a few weeks time, the spec is:- -52TB -Fully ported head -Hotter exhaust cam -forged pistons, fully floating on the con rods -increased CR -and this week end I'm fitting a VHPD 4-2-1 exhaust, with out a cat (off road use only ) this is similar to the spec of the 179bhp one that Dave A. did the week before my car, except for the forged pistons and possibly the better exhaust, This is a part upgrade as i am waiting for the emerald VVC ECU to be available, once I'm satisfied that runs with the plenham it will have TB's added, If Oily picks this up I'm sure he will correct any Techy bits. Given the output of this DVA conversion, and the potential for future upgrades, this should at least give other VVC owners an option other than dumping the VVC, Mark Bennett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.Tanner Posted March 18, 2003 Author Share Posted March 18, 2003 Mark, What is the difference between what you've had done and the DVA K06 upgrade? Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 "the emerald VVC ECU to be available" Mark, Do you have some news regarding this ECU? I've been witing for it for the last year also. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagartija Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Far too complicated. DTA's good for me. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb905 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 My upgrade is as the DVA VVC kit but with the addition of the forged pistons, which will allow for future developments, the emerald ECU is currently being worked on and from the emails i have exchanged with Dave/Karl they are looking to get the job sorted soon, the have a new VVC engine to do the work on, they are of course in the middle of a bit of moving at the moment which may not help!. from there perspective the more people that sign up for one the more of an incentive there is to get one on the market, Dave Walkers view is that it should allow (Allong with the DVA conversion) for the development of a very tracktable, 180 bhp plus engine on TB. Oily really needs to add some comments views to this, as he knows the technical bits Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb905 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Stewart, I forgot to add that the in addition to the VVC conversion that DVA does, I'm also changing the exhaust to the VHPD 4-2-1, hope that helps, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 The K06 upgrade replaces the VVC mechs with solid cams, utilises an Emerald ECU and DTH throbble botties. The head remains standard. Mark's conversion is essentially the K06a which retains the VVC mechs, stock ECU and plenum. It includes a fully ported head, better exhaust cam and 52mm TB all running on the standard management. In addition Mark has forged pistons and new uprated big-end shells together with freshly honed liners and uprated head gasket. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Do you by chance sell the exhaust cam for the K06a separately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 The exhaust cam is normally supplied as part of the kit, but I now have some VVC exhaust blanks so I can have some more made, they are available on an exchange basis only and are £120 + VAT. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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