Batteries - dead or alive? 5 of them under test. A highly charged topic

[anthony1956]

The context of this is after discovering a parasitic drain of 0.27A by the alternator Sense wire because the B+ was wired to the other side of the cutout switch (so it cut out and the Sense wire did not), I have five batteries in various states of charge. Three sealed, two unsealed Banners. To complicate matters a third Banner turned out to be faulty when newly filled with acid, so that one is excluded, discarded. Other threads refer. 

After a few days of measurements, a bit haphazardly, the results look like this (re-written from the illegible version) 

The link will give a bigger display, they are allocated as sealed A B C unsealed Banners D E plates covered.

A seems normal and ok 

B I had hoped would be ok but now seems to fail to accept charge. I will try a different charger on it but I am not hopeful.

C does not accept charge and is dud at 5.x volts. 

D (the reason for this post) has suffered parasitic 0.27A drain since last October (10/18) and I had thought was goosed. However, it is accepting charge. Really? I have recently seen a battery appear to accept charge and then promptly lose it so I am sceptical. 

E seems normal and ok, being a dry battery filled with acid last week, all cells show similar density.

On tour usually I have a Banner under the bonnet and a dry cell in the boot, so from the above that will be A and E.. make that E and A. 

I'll give B another go, but not hopeful.

Note to self, disconnect battery never mind just the cut-off over Winter. Incidentally I disconnected another car's battery over Winter and it started fine this Spring, no charging necessary. Granted it is not an old battery.

What about D? Is it a foregone conclusion it is beyond recovery? 

One likes to be current..

Anthony

 

 

[auyt]

Interesting insight and strategy have you considered ditching Lead acid and going to AGM batteries, smaller and more grunt. and keep a Lithium Jump starter in the boot they are tiny and light.

[anthony1956]

What is AGM? (Googling in a minute). I also carry a lithium jumper, I forgot that - the croc clips take SO much space!

Prolly worth mentioning my strategy was evolved several years ago.. not sure how many, maybe six? When I bought most of the above, the Banners “dry”, no acid. Supply in my region is .. difficult, so I keep stocks. Interesting thought about what my next one will be when these all finish. 

Heck, originally (10+ years ago maybe) I always carried a huge booster in the passenger footwell; I find on tour the no 1 resource is battery power, when the engine fails miles from anywhere, batteries drain unsettlingly fast. 

[auyt]

AGM - Absorbed Glass Matt, I use a battery by a company.... wait for it called ...Full River Made in the US,  HC20 is the size I use 300 Cold Cracking Amps.

The next size up is the HC28 and is 410 CCA.

AGM batteries need specific chargers and mine lives with a CTEK unit attached to it full time when the car is parked

[CageyH]

My last Banner lasted 8 years. I replaced it with a PC680. Smaller and more powerful, and I believe it tolerates being drained better.

[anthony1956]

I don't suppose one can put two of HC20 in place of one Banner? Looks like the future

The PC680 is half the amp hours at 16ah. I like amp hours. Can't fathom the Full River ah.. may be 20 (1A for 20 hours)

[garybee]

AGM batteries need specific chargers and mine lives with a CTEK unit attached to it full time when the car is parked

What changes have you made to your charging system to accommodate an AGM battery?

[auyt]

No change needed, they were designed for automotive/bike/ATV use. Friends have been using these for years and swear by them

It the home charging that is important as the old style chargers pump to hard. CTEK is a computer controlled very low ampage tester/trickle/ cycling unit

[CageyH]

The important point about AGM batteries

 

" Odyssey batteries use thin pure lead plates for construction. Having thin plates means more can fit in a battery and more plates means more power.The Odyssey battery uses absorbed glass mat (AGM) technology to offer, in one box, the characteristics of two separate batteries. It can deep cycle as well as provide enormous cranking power.These batteries are capable of providing engine cranking pulses in excess of 2250A for 5 seconds as well as 400 charge/discharge cycles to 80% depth of discharge (DOD). A typical starting, lighting and ignition (SLI) battery can do one or the other, but not both. Odyssey batteries will do both - provide short duration high amperage pulse or low rate long duration drains."

[anthony1956]

Interesting, having a look for an Odyssey same size as the Banner. More amp hours presumably.

[CageyH]

Banner do AGM batteries.

[CageyH]

You also have something like this:

 

https://www.tayna-batteries.fr/batteries-de-moto/exide/gel12-30/

 

 

[anthony1956]

Fit means my K battery tray.

Same partnumber as theBanner 53030 .. same dimensions and terminal orientation I wonder.. looking..

My use case is all about the Amp Hours AH.

seems not:

187mm long x 128mm wide x 165mm tall Banner 30AH, the designed ideal fit OEM.

165mm long x 176mm wide x 125mm tall Varley Red Top 35 (mount on its side in a CSR) which means it becomes:

165mm long x 125mm wide x 176mm tall .. I think. Which means too “tall” for my S3.. 

165mm long x 127mm wide x 175mm tall Antigravity 30 Li fits (prolly) BUT £480 quid 2.9kg

181.5mm long x 76.3mm wide x 167.8mm tall Odyssey PC680 fits but only 16AH and can’t fit two.

197mm long x 132mm wide x 186mm tall Exide  This won’t fit.

166mm long, 126mm wide, 175mm tall, 11.2kg. Yuasa  GYZ32HL 500CCA, 32Ah, AGM is the R400 exactly the same battery fit as the R500? (K S3)

 

 

I have tried taller batteries always without success, typical of the S3 everything fits, only just.

[CageyH]

That is why I posted it. It should be more tolerant to being drained, but it is more expensive than a banner.

[Ian B]

Anthony, I'm not too bothered about weight and I use a Varley Red Top 35 which fits the standard battery tray on my CSR, on it's side (I think there is a sizable members discount from Demon Tweaks on Varley)

[7 wonders of the world]

Pretty sure this is the one I use (I will check the part number later)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LITHIUM-Best-Price-Motorcycle-Battery-YTX20CH-FP-JMT-YTX16-BS-YTX16-BS-1/281826975008?epid=2006757716&hash=item419e325d20:g:0UsAAOSwA4dWHRCv&frcectupt=true

 

[anthony1956]

187mm long x 128mm wide x 165mm tall Banner 30AH, the designed ideal fit OEM.

165mm long x 176mm wide x 125mm tall Varley Red Top 35 (mount on its side in a CSR) which means it becomes:

165mm long x 125mm wide x 176mm tall .. I think. (Edited to delete my carp conclusion) 11mm. I suspect, but do not know, that extra height won’t fit. Might be very cool if it does.  Last time I fitted a too tall battery the bonnet flew open at 40mph, flipped back, smashed the windscreen and dented the roof, not to mention stopping being “interesting” with instant no view. 

[anthony1956]

7 wonders ; only 6AH isn’t enough for what I want (which is circa 30).

I can see both the above are nice bits of kit.

[Ian B]

187mm long x 128mm wide x 165mm tall Banner 30AH, the designed ideal fit OEM.

165mm long x 176mm wide x 125mm tall Varley Red Top 35 (mount on its side in a CSR) which means it becomes:

165mm long x 125mm wide x 176mm tall

or looking at it another way: 

176mm long x 125mm wide x 165mm tall 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

I’ve fitted a Yuasa AGM GYZ32HL battery to my R400 after persistent cold starting problems with the Banner in the past (cold start to me is after the car has sat overnight in -5C weather in late April or October when visiting the track). I flattened the Banner several times due to too little cranking capability in these cold conditions.

Although the GYZ32HL is a little heavy, it is a compact battery that is very vibration tolerant and is used in many motorcycles, ATVs and snowmobiles and turns over the Caterham significantly faster than the Banner:

500CCA, 32Ah, AGM, 166mm long, 126mm wide, 175mm tall, 11.2kg.

Although I paid the equivalent of £140 in Canada, it seems to be about £200 from some UK sources and £231 from Halfords.

 

[anthony1956]

is the R400 exactly the same battery fit as the R500? (K S3)

I can’t confidently imagine whether it will fit where the bonnet (hood) curves down over it.. more AH def attracts my attention. AGM these seem to need constant trickle charging or is that just belt & braces?