Trevor Phillips Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 We fitted the engine in yesterday [dropped straight through the hole unlike the Vauxhall] and I could do with any pearls of wisdom. Using Crossflow engine mounts to a 711M thick wall block gave the alignment for the holes about 0.5" out on the offside with everything in alignment. Also, on the steering side the dry sump top front oil outlet is so close to the steering column that you couldn't get a fitting on. I understand one way round this is that you can twist the rack slightly and put washers under the mount to increase this clearance. There is also no room to fit an alternator on the nearside as the pulley fouls the diagonal cross- brace. The 6 speed gearbox rests on the front mount [previously with a 5 speed it rested on the rear]. The whole set-up looks to far forward and the gear lever is way under the dashboard. What I'm wondering is are there any differences between a crossflow chassis and an HPC? Or, are there diffent engine mounts available for a BDA? Or should we be using a 0.5" spacer on the engine mount to achieve the alignment? [This still leaves the alternator problem.] If we fabricated new engine mounts the engine could move back 2" giving clearances for the dry sump pump and alternator. The gearbox would then sit on the rear mount but would need a 9/16th" spacer to raise it due to the different profile. The only chassis mod would be near the bellhousing starter bulge to modify the "V" bars for the dry sump tank to give some clearance there. With the gearbox moved back the tailshaft length should be the same as the 5 speed gearbox and I could re-use the 26.5" prop. Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miraz Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 afaik - the HPC and X-flow cars have different transmission mounts in the chassis. I'm involved with installing a VX lump into a X-flow chassis at the moment - the car is currently with Arch for the modification of the transmission mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_g Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Without knowing exactly your setup, a few minor details of the standard BDA/BDR installation may be of help. The RH X-flow or BDA (the same) engine mount is hugely bent (and so very weak!) to clear (just) the dry sump pump. Alternator and crank pulley clearances are always a problem. The standard, steel crank pulley clears the front cruciform member by a gnats tadger, but on most installations a poly-vee pulley will need machining to fit. I guess Arch would give a definative answer on chassis gearbox and engine mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Steering column will just clear pump if you put two spacers underneath rack. I found that this made the rack sit better anyway as the arms were then dead horizontal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Trevor. The VX normally sits 2" farther back than the XF in a 7. Better balance I guess. Are you using the 1"+ thick sandwhich plate between engine and bellhousing? For XF installation on XF engine mounts you would have too. Interesting about the 5 and 6 sp boxes mounting differently. Do you have a universal chassis (perhaps hence you have a mounting point for it)? Older cars are not universal and need mods. I guess you have to use the XF too or RS2000 bellhousing cut down? It is deeper than the VX one. I had the VX over the weekend and back in again. The removable chassis top rails make it easier. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Guys, apologies for the high-jack, but appreciate that you are going from x-flow to VX. I have Trevor's components from his race car so a bit nervous about the VX going back in. I have a 1990 dedion chassis ( K1430 ) originally fitted with a x-flow I am looking to put a VX 16V in. I have;- a Caterham Vx 16V bellhousing ( not the dry sump type ) 6 speed box 25 mm ( c. dims ) spacer that goes between bellhousing and g'box Arch have fitted latest g'box mounting plate so both positions available I understand the 1990 chassis was designed to take a VX and that the engine mount to chassis positions have not changed [ it is just the mounting point to block brackets that change ] Can you advise if the 26.5" prop is the correct type ? Assume the g-box position and therefore lever will be in different location, ie 1.5" further away ( towards front of car ) I welcome any thoughts from those who have completed or are going through the same process. Many thanks Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Guys. anyone have pics of std VX engine mounts ? Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Phillips Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Steve, We have used the spacer and an SPC alloy X-flow bell housing. Skypilot It is the poly-V pulley that is the problem. As I haven't had the exhaust manifold made yet it sounds like fabricated engine mounts based on getting the gearbox mount aligned and then working forwards. Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Trevor This may belp in reverse if that makes sense. For VX, Arch advise rear mounting point for g'box pick up For VX Arch advise fixings on chassis rails are universal ( except K - series where additional hole ) For VX Caterham no space required So for yours 1. Std fixings in rail should be fine along with std engine mounts 2. G'box will fit on front mounting point 3. Spacer will be required ( appreciate you have this already ) The prop shaft will be longer type - I will need shortened one Kindest regards Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Phillips Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Decided following everyone's posts that moving the engine back must be better all round: # CG goes back # Engine can be lower with fabricated mounts # gearlever in a better position # can fit the alternator pulley # can use shorter prop # oil pump will clear steering column Now booked in for fabricator to make on Thursday. Heck, its only money... Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Trevor, just ordered my shorter VX prop shaft from Caterham. Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Anthony, did you have the long prop ,IE 28.5"? Power Freak member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Peter Apparently mine was 26.5 ( Trevor kindly measured ) and Caterham advised I needed a shorter one ? Is this correct ? How long is your prop and are you using the rear mounting point for the g'box ( assuming universal g'box mounting point with two fixing positions ) Many thanks Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I only have one gearbox mounting point, it is about 2" too short for my application. Which means that i will have to cut and re weld ! Caterham only have two props listed one at 26.5" &28.5", and you need shorter? Power Freak member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Guys, according to Caterham there are three lengths, so I have ordered a new one as mine needs new two new UJ's Bolts for gearbox ( ie shortened ) to run without 25mm spacer also available from Caterham. If anyone needs a spacer and set of bolts let me know Kind regards Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Trevor, my car is a one of the BDR HPC variants. If it is of any use I could take some digital photos of the engine layout and email them to you. Big Al (I'm not big and I'm not clever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Phillips Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Big Al, Yes, please. Just been putting the car on the trailer for Thursday. Anthony, Yes on the spacer and bolts, please. I'm going to wait until the engine mounts have been fabricated and then measure up. Surprised to hear there is a 3rd propshaft [shorter] one. Not mentioned in the book. How short is it? Surely if the tailshaft is the same length and you use the same mounting point, then the 26.5" is the right length as nothing has changed? Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Trevor, will take some pictures as soon as I get home from work late this afternoon. What sort of internet connection do you have IE modem dial up, IDSN or ADSL. Just so I can judge how big to keep the files too, do want you sitting there all evening waiting for the files to download. Any areas you want me to concentrate on or do you want general pictures of the engine bay ? My car is a 5-Speed I notice your original post mentions 6-speed. Big Al (I'm not big and I'm not clever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KayTee Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Big Al: I am fitting a BDA into my Cat/Lotus chassis, as well, and am therefore extremely interested in any "real life" application pics I can get my hands onto. Please e-mail as many pics in as high a resolution as you have and care to mail. (I'm on flat-rate ADSL, so dl time doesn't matter much) Please e-mail the pics to: KT(at)Kay-Tee(dot)de Thanks a load in advance ! - Karsten Edited by - KayTee on 10 Mar 2003 17:02:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Trevor I will drop spacer and bolts off when I pick up wheels, or if needed urgently, let me know and I will post them over. On the prop. I understand 26.5 and 28.5 are the range and there is a third which is inbetween apparent ( as advised by Tony at Caterham today ). Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Phillips Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Anthony, If you could post them that would be great as we'll bolt it up Thursday. Weird this about the prop lengths. Book says 26.5" and 28". If it is in between that is only 3/4" difference - almost too small to make it worthwhile! Big Al, I'm on ADSL so size doesn't matter 😬. Interested in the relationship of the bulkhead to bellhousing. My engine sits so low we can't fit a normal air filter box on, may have to go to socks. Is your similar? Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hi Trevor/KayTee, I am emailing some pictures as I type this. As you are both on ADSL did not worry about the size of the pics but there are 37 coming your way @ 1280 resolution making a total of 14.5meg. So will take a few minutes to download. Hopefully you should see everything you need but if you have any questions just shout. Edited by - big al on 10 Mar 2003 19:23:14 PS It took approx 20 mins to upload the email so should take you guys about 10 minutes to download. Edited by - big al on 10 Mar 2003 19:38:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Guys, just brought a block to help with trial fit so will provide update on 6 speed VX into 1990 chassis Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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