Fitting Front Cycle Wings

[ssweet1970]

Afternoon all.

i think I must have read every blog and article that I can find on this subject but can’t calm my fears.

My build has 195/50 R15 tyres and when I position the wing on to the wing stays with the wheel on, I would not be able to easily remove the wheel again without possibly damaging the wing as it obviously hangs down lower than the wing stay.  It also looks like I would get only about 7 or 8 mm of clearance from the tyre to the edge of the cycle wing does this sound correct?

I have just been speaking with another local member and he mentioned that I may have been sent 13” wing stays instead of 15” wing stays.  Does anyone know what the dimensional differences are so I can check (no smart replies please! I know 2”.... but is it simply a dimension from the centre of the hub or something different ?).

The next issue is if I have done everything correctly, when I turn the steering fully right, the wing will rub on the main bodywork.  Has anyone else had this problem?  The only solution I can see is to rotate the wing forward on the stays which takes it slightly away from the body. The current consensus seems to be that 80mm from the wing stay to the front edge of the wing is the set point.  My solution would see the distance being more like 100mm.  Can anyone see this being an issue?

Thanks in advance.

Sean

 

[Jim 123]

Make sure you position the wings as per the IVA Test Manual it is quite specific. You probably do not need to worry about the wing touching the body side if this is happening whilst the car is on stands.  With the wheels on the ground you should find things reorientate and you will not get contact.

[ssweet1970]

Thanks Jim.

I will download the IVA test manual and have a read before I go any further!

[SLR No.77]

The wings will be a close fit to the wheels, you should find though that if you need to remove the wheel it should come away fine by tipping it outwards at the top first. Most people fit the 13/14" wings even when using 15" wheels because they're considered to look better (rather than 15/16" wings).

With regards to catching the body, unless you have widetrack it's likely to happen but isn't usually considered a problem.

Stu.

[Alan Reeves]

mmm I popped down and checked my car and :

I cannot see how the wing would ever get close to the body, I have photos of mine of you want.

I am prety sure there are marks under the wing to line up on the top wing stay bar ?

There is an issue with wing /wheel space when not using CR500 tyres which have a 45 profile. The extra

height for 50 profile is going to cause me issues in the future for sure.

13  to 15 is not what it seems, 13 have deeper profiles and all that. does anyone know the height of a 13 with tire versus a 15  with tire ? also giving the profiles of those heights.

 

[Drumster]

Alan,

Try tyre size calculator

[John Vine]

There is an issue with wing /wheel space when not using CR500 tyres which have a 45 profile. The extra height for 50 profile is going to cause me issues in the future for sure.

Hi Alan,

That was my fear too when I replaced my 195/45 R15 CR500s with 195/50 R15 ZZSs.  It turned out that the ZZSs fitted ok (which surprised me) as they have a less pronounced and more angled "shoulder" than the CR500s. 

JV

 

[7 wonders of the world]

sounds like you havent got the rack correctly centred therefore you have more right lock than left.

[Jig]

I think the IVA manual says that the wing needs to be level with the front edge of the wheel rim:

http://www.itbear.co.uk:8080/images/Caterham/IMGP2070.JPG

[John Vine]

Section 37 (Wheel Guards) of the IVA Manual (Passenger vehicles M1) says:

1. The vehicle must be fitted with wheel guards
2. The wheel guard must extend at least 30 degrees from the centre of the wheel to the front (Figure 1)
3. The wheel guard must extend at least 50 degrees from the centre of the wheel to the rear (Figure 1)
4. The wheel guard must cover the full breadth of the tyre throughout the required dimensions (see Note 2 and Figure 1)
5. The rear of the wheel guard must not terminate above a horizontal plane of 150mm above the wheel centre. (see Note1 and Figure 1)

Note 1: The rear part of the mudguard after the required 50° to where it terminates does not have to cover the full breadth of the tyre

Note 2: When determining the wheel guard coverage you must view the tyre from the vertical, horizontal and longitudinal planes

JV

 

[John Vine]

...if you need to remove the wheel it should come away fine by tipping it outwards at the top first.

The only way I can remove my 195/50 R15 ZZSs is by pulling out from the bottom as they catch the wings if I try from the top.  Mind you, on my car the clearance between wing and tyre is tiny -- just a few mm.

JV

[Alan Reeves]

Thanks for info john

[CtrMint]

Guys, 

Hope you don't mind me bumping this thread, I'm preparing for the front cycle wings.....

The information I'm reading suggests the front and rearward alignment of the cycle wings is measured to the wheel and not the tyre, or am I mistaken, have to say I would have expected the tyre of safety.

 

[John Vine]

The IVA Manual diagram in post #10 assumes the tyre is already fitted to the wheel, but it doesn't really matter as the rules are based on the angles subtended by the front and rear edges of the wing, which of course are the same with or without tyres (as is the 150mm height stipulation).

So, start by measuring the 30-deg angle to pinpoint the furthest back the leading edge of the wing can be.  Then, with the wing in that position, check that the trailing edge meets the 50-deg rule, as well as the 150mm minimum height rule.  Then move the leading edge forward slightly (say 10-15mm) while ensuring the other two measurements are still met.  This will ensure that you have a little leeway.

JV

[ScottR400D]

Sounds complicated. 

When I built mine it was simply a dimension from the front edge of the wing to the front bar of the wing stay, 75-80mm IRRC. That worked for me. 

Have things changed?

[John Vine]

I don't think things have changed (from an IVA perspective anyway). 

The latest AG says: "The distance from the front edge of the wing to the wingstay should be 80mm."  If CC did this measurement to comply with the IVA Manual, that's all you need to do.  Personally, I'd do the 30-deg measurement as well to be absolutely sure (and avoid a potential IVA fail). 

Interestingly, the previous AG said:  "Drill through the cycle wing at the premarked points using a 5 mm drill."  That should work ok unless the marks are made with a black marker pen and you have black wings (like I did!).  I take it CC no longer pre-mark the wings?

JV

 

 

[Jim 123]

My wings had position marks on the underside of the wing.  I used John's method and the position marks coincidentally turned out to be spot on.  As a final check before you drill make sure that the rear edge of each wing does not foul the bodywork on full lock.

[CtrMint]

Guys, 

CC supplied some form of adhesive, TEROSON MS9220 Power Adhesive, so they're stuck on, I don't think I need to drill them.  They certainly aren't marked on the inside either.

I'm trying to sort a method of measuring the angles accurately, but I'm starting to conclude I don't have the tools to make it a worthwhile job.  There's no point ending up with poor tolerances in my measurements and hence a mile off anyway.

[John Vine]

...I don't have the tools...

All you need is a school-type protractor, a spirit level and some string. Or just go with the 80mm -- if you add a bit (5-10 mm, say), it will be close enough.

JV

[CtrMint]

I know but I'm trying to rig something up which is fixed so I can maintain an accurate measurement as I deal with the positioning once I'm trying to bond everything

[Jim 123]

Why not cut a large disc from a discarded CC cardboard parts box and mark a vertical axis as well as your desired angle from hub center. Stick it to the wheel with a plumb line on the vertical as your control. Before doing so put masking tape on the wing stays and wing inner edges and when all is in place mark with a pen to give repeatable alignment.

[CtrMint]

Quick question about the TEROSON MS9220, when I shake the tube it sounds like there is a dry powder in there, is that how its supposed to sound?

[SLR No.77]

Yes.

[Petethediesel]

What you are describing as a template/tool is exactly what the examiner used during my car's test a couple of weeks ago (well maybe not the Caterham cardboard bit)

[CtrMint]

Am I being incredibly dumb here, but is there something you need to do to get the adhesive out of the tube?  Do you need to cut the bottom of the tube in some way?   I've bust two guns and still can't get the stuff to move??