Pre-emptive starter and alternator service interval? What's yours?

[anthonym]

As has become apparent, the alternators and starters we use (which is to say at the least, mine) will fail at some point. In fact the whole car is practically a consumable given the passage of enough years. 

Question is what is a sensible service interval?

I am thinking five years. Seven? (tempting)

so twice every ten or twice every 14 (or 15) years.

My car is 18 years old and both items have failed twice. 

I suppose this thread is to share failure interval experiences so as to identify when the time is right.

Sure, different cars different times and my car is extreme (R500 heat soak), but it is tempting to think there may be a common factor - maybe miles of course rather than years and having these things serviced is vastly better than waiting for them to fail and the prospective massive impact of that especially on tour.

Anthony 

[Geoff Brown]

Items like starters & alternators are 'on condition items'. ie if it shows signs of failure or fails then it is time to replace or have the item serviced.

From my experience having owned three Sevens since 1994 with a continual upgrade in power & heat soak I have only had one starter motor fail due to K Series heat soak & that was ten years ago.

I suppose that time to failure of the items is dependent on use against installation position, cycles/starts, mileage per year & the amount of heat shielding. 

I am of the opinion that you are just unlucky with constant failure of these items !

[Jonathan Kay]

Edited: Crossed with Geoff's.

I'm not sure what you mean by "service":

• Remove it and take it somewhere (and both types can often be repaired locally rather than replaced) regardless of how it's working?
• Replace it blind?

But it feels sensible to:

1. Know what you've got fitted.
2. Think about how you'd get it repaired or replaced if it failed.
3. For the starter occasionally check what the lowest voltage is during cranking so that you can easily detect deterioration or failure.
4. And for the charging side ditto at 3,000 rpm.

Jonathan

PS:

In fact the whole car is practically a consumable given the passage of enough years. 

But for rubber bits pre-emptive action seems sensible. And timing belts. And sump foam where present.

 

[Stridey]

Having just worked through a battery issue I would in addition to the above look into fitting a permanent (but switchable) voltmeter. I’ve posted elsewhere that I have mine on the passenger knee panel, visible from driving seat.

I fitted this when I suspected an alternator problem. 

Ive also wrapped my starter motor in heat wrap, you can buy little jackets for them. I only did this as a precaution, I have no way of checking it’s effacacy(?)

To be able to monitor voltage In real time on the move can really help find where a problem may lie, or warn you of a problem occurring. 

[TomB]

Just have a spare of each tucked away. I’ve never heard of them in the context of a ‘service item’, just have a spare incase they have a problem. I’ve picked up spare K series ones for not much cash. 

[DJ.]

I wouldn't replace an alternator starter or battery unless it started to give signs of trouble. There's no point throwing money away, and with electrical items, newer doesn't always mean more reliable.

[anthonym]

come on chaps: so we just remain victim to failures ?  

you seem to think you can catch these failures before they happen by some sort of testing or occasional monitoring. "Signs of failure"? So you are in the middle of a 2,000 thousand mile tour and your alternator starts to fail, shows signs of failure. Or, your starting begins to be suspect to some degree, starter is showing signs of failure (COD etc). What are you going to do exactly?  It is too late. You are goosed. 

I don't think I am unlucky and I do not think luck has much to do with it. I don't think two failures in twenty years can be called "constant". "Consistent" maybe, which I am now considering, but I need to find out why this alternator failed/is failing - b t w it is "failing" more than "not failing" as measured by the battery dying unless externally charged. I like the idea of a nylon mounting block as heat soak insulator, that seems like a really good idea - where to get one?

By "service" I mean replace or renovate as necessary. That means remove it, take it to bits and replace the usual bits (one of my earlier posts shows this being done blow-by-blow in pictures), since it is already in pieces not to do so would not make sense. Of course it is catch-22 in so far as you won't know if it needed "service" until you take it to bits. That is perhaps the purpose of "Service", such as when you take your tintop in for "Service" and the garage nods sagely while handing you a large bill for service during which they changed nothing but checked everything - except maybe the oil, but the whole car is now considered to have been "serviced". 

"Think about how you'd get it repaired or replaced if it failed." Having my tour terminated is not an option I like; it is expensive, time consuming and a right pain in the posterior, and a waste of money. As my op says, this is about pre-emption NOT what happens when it goes wrong. 

I have a Stack dash so part of driving the car is always monitoring the voltage, as well as oil temp etc. Though it seems I don't have an "alternator warning light" - but I do have a low voltage warning light and message as well as the voltage itself.

Yes I agree "new" does not necessarily mean better, which really in my experience of "new" parts that fail, means "renovated" or what is it.. I forget the expression for components where it is claimed they are "good as new", but they simply are not.

Beyond that I find I disagree that new is not better than old.

To check heat wrap efficacy check the flexibility of the connected wires, both the thick and the thin. They should remain bendy when pressed between finger and thumb, if they aren't, replace them. I replace mine as "Service items" every few years, because the required ten centimetre distance from the primaries is barely achieved, though each wire is protected by additional heat shielding tube stuff. Beyond that remove and have the starter serviced at leisure, including a report on their state before new brushes etc, to provide an indication of when next to repeat this inexpensive process. Same with the alternator.

Maybe your cars just aren't exotic enough (6k engine rebuild every 24,000 miles) - I accept the/my R500 K was designed for thrashing round a track for a few minutes and not for gallivanting round Europe year after year. It's all part of the adventure and the fun. 

I never throw money away, I invest it in touring peace of mind. The previous part can become the renovated spare, one whose history is known. I have spares, but carrying a spare alternator in the boot is pushing it - in the trailer I suppose, but if I think it's time for that, it's time to service it.

I suppose otherwise I'd have a fivespeed SV with a 1600cc engine for a quiet reliable life. 

Of course I know what I've got fitted. Remembering can be a challenge. I just found I forgot I had not fitted the Brise alternator I had promised myself. So that has cost me.

That voltage display looks like a VERY good idea for those who don't have a volts display already. 

In Switzerland they always tell me it's cheaper to buy a new unit than repair the old one - which locally is true. However, I don't always find myself local ;-)  . On tour "locally" usually is met with "sure, we can do that for you in two weeks, come back then", as happened last Thursday. Or even, " yes it's broke, now we don't have time to fix it". !! One has to laugh. :-)

oh yes, followed by the auto-club "it is a condition of our rescue that the car is in a workshop so we can validate it is broken down"..!!! Really?! Yes really. Granted some time later it was "well ok, at our discretion we will... etc".  

7 Life is so wonderful :-)

Anthony

 

 

[anthonym]

and guess what? My starter has NOT failed. It's the B+ wire is broken at the connector.

[Geoff Brown]

Having a continuous program of removal, refurb & refit can be quite costly in the long run on such items as starters & alternators considering they are designed to function long term under varying conditions.

Although you do own what is regarded as a 'highly strung' Seven variant that needs a lot of attention. 

In the aviation world all important components are given a life in either hours, cycles or landings. And prior to any component reaching those limits they are regularly inspected (not removed or stripped down) & if necessary removed 'on condition' due to fault finding, poor operating symptoms or in the worst case, contained or uncontained failure.   

To do otherwise would be expensive.

[anthonym]

Yes with hindsight a proper inspection would have shown it was not faulty. I need to learn this as it is the second time this year it has proven to be the wiring and not the unit.