Race car seats

[Dobson_justin]

Just in the process of buying a race car for next years championship. Need to get a seat or two.  The obvious choice would be a pair of tillets, but thought I would lean on the collective experience here, and take any advice on possible alternatives?

Thanks! 

[Shaun_E]

Hi Justin - tillets are a good choice. Forget the Caterham ones as they aren't great for HANS and also not comfortable with a helmet. If you want a headrest then the B6 is the one to go for (which we have) but a few people are using the low back ones (W1i). With either, you should have a head rest support bolted to the rollbar/cage. The alternative is to make a bag seat - this is the perfect solution but takes a bit of practice to get right.

[SimonR300]

I bought a pair of Tilletts and new Schroth Harnesses from MSAR to replace the cut down Caterham race seat that was in my ex-racer. They had the stock whereas there was a lead time direct from Tillett at the time.  I went for a B6 for the driver and a W1 for the passenger.  I had to trim the sides down to fit them in, something Tillett will do for you and both had the backframe.  Went for Hans shoulder straps for the driver but standard for the passenger side.  My car already had the correctly spaced Hans shoulder strap bushes welded in.  If you are using a Hans with a headrest on the seat, make sure you get the design which accommodates the Hans so your head isn't pushed forward.  Driver's side has the adjustable runners and the passenger has a fixed position on ali box sections which you can make yourself or get from Caterham.

Tillett make the seats for Caterham as far as I know.  If you are going to be the only driver a bead seat is probably best as Shaun suggested but check your championship regs first.

If you are going to share the drive and need the occasional passenger/instructor, the Tilletts are perfect, very comfortable and will fit all sorts.

Good luck with the Championship.

[Richard Price]

Another vote for a bag seat here.

I can never sit comfortably in Caterham spec. seats when wearing a helmet, and can rarely adjust the harnesses because the buckles are inaccessible wedged between the seat and the car interior panels.

I made my own bag seat, but, it fits me perfectly, and provides more support than a Tillet. (granted, it does not look particularly nice, but I'm more interested in how effective it is than how nice it looks!) 

I also use Schroth harnesses to MSAR's spec.

[Drumster]

Just to add to the debate...

I have the standard Tillett and find no issues with helmet, harnesses or HANS (Simpson Hybrid in my case), but that is probably because the seat is tilted back by a considerable amount and I have a plate mount for the shoulder harness straps which lowers the mounting point.

I think it's a case that one solution won't suit all parties.

[Dobson_justin]

Great advice thanks all! Gives me something to consider

Need to look into how a bag seat is made! 

[Drumster]

Need to look into how a bag seat is made! 

You need to do a search for the 'Mike Bees canoe tale' before you start playing with expanding foam 

[Tony Smith]

Hi Justin,

I have gone bag and its very comfy, supportive and not as tricky to make as I expected.

As Richard says its not pretty but it works and its light.

good luck

[Shaun_E]

https://www.lotus7.club/forum/chitchat/famous-mike-bees-canoe-tale in case you can't find it.

[Dobson_justin]

Read the canoe story, brilliant. I may well go for tillets B6 and W1 as Shaun and Simon suggest. The smaller passenger seat is what I was looking for.  Read about the canoe, and after having a good laugh at the story, have got the gist of a bag seat principle I think! 

Can someone advise how a bag seat is made in simple terms?  I searched the site but could not find anything, but maybe not looking in the right place.

[Dobson_justin]

Ok, have found some info now, it makes more sense. Do your bag seats need to be fitted to the car? I assume not?

Also, do you buy a kit from somewhere or improvise - if the latter, what do you use? 

I might have a go at this.

[Tony Smith]

I got a kit from Demon Tweeks

A very big strong bag and two cans of liquid.

As I needed to sit very low and far back in the car I just mixed the two cans, tipped it into the bag, put the bag in the car and sat on it making myself as comfy as possible (A lovely warm  feeling as the foam expands around you).

Once the foam has set i cut away the excess and covered with gaffer tape.

Some one less tall may have something to add!!!

Tony

[Richard Price]

Some one less tall may have something to add!!!

I'm less tall....

As I needed to sit with my back forward of the seat back bulkhead, I started with a 50mm sheet of Celotex building insulation foam behind my back.

Actually, I started, by making a carboard insert to fit in the foot well, to make a forward edge for the seat base.

You need to remove the harnesses, and make a cardboard insert, placed alongside the tunnel so that the foam seat back does not key around the lower edge of the tunnel top, preventing the seat back being lifted out.

My seat back is quite bulbous on the LHS as it flows around my shoulder, but it provides very good support.

The seat base also has a raised edge on the RHS that supports my thigh (driving other cars on track, I find I have to wedge my leg against the side of the car to stop it flapping around)

My seat was made using several batches of foam. I made the base first, trimming it to the size and shape I was after, then made a separate back.

I've used this foam:-

https://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/2-Part-Polyurethane-Foam-Liquid-5kg-pack-N2PSTD_005.html#SID=415

I've seen folk talk of using survival bags, but my feeling is that these are a little too inflexible, and have used normal wheelie  bin liners. 

 

[Dobson_justin]

That is brilliant, thanks, will give it a try. I assume the seats don’t need to be attached to the car in any way?

[Tony Smith]

Richard, it was you that I expected to provide the finer details!!!

Although I will accept that Some one less tall could refer to anyone!!

Justin,

The bag seat needs no fixing.

 

[Dobson_justin]

Cheers Tony

[SimonR300]

Justin,

I discovered csfnet some years ago too, it's the best place to get the two part expanding foam.  The mark-up from other suppliers is considerable.

I have had a few expanding foam seat failures such as it shrinking after setting and having to buy some expanding foam remover after my father poured in too much mix into the bag I was sitting on.

Richard's advice is spot on.  Ideally you need your race suit, Hans and helmet on too.  Just protect everything from over-expansion/spillage and spend the time with the cardboard.  I won't use it anymore and only make bead seats now.  You need to consider the advances in impact absorption provided by the bead material and the curve of your spine.  It is difficult to maintain a good posture for your spine and neck in the car while the foam expands around you.  A bead seat does give you some support.  Racecar Engineering magazine published some research into spinal injuries in Formula cars that you might be able to find.  Basically, the more the spine is curved and not in good alignment, the greater the chance of (mainly lower) spinal injury in an impact.  The Tillett seats, if you are comfortable in them, at least keep your spine in a better position than you might end up with in a bag seat.

Yes, it is the belts that hold you into the chassis thereby securing the foam/bead seat.

http://www.realequipe.com/2011/09/real-race-seat-insert-for-caterham-racers/

http://www.caterhamr500.co.uk/2017/03/real-essentials-diy-bead-seat.html

 

 

[Dobson_justin]

Thanks Simon, looks like I have some fun ahead!