Blue_SV Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Many thanks to those who responded to my earlier post.I have now had chance to take a further look and do some testing. The suspected 'K click' might not be the cause - I used a fly lead from the solenoid to the battery to bypass the relay but no response. I checked the voltage to the solenoid lead and it flicks to full voltage (12.5V) when pressing the starter button. I have checked all fuses, removed/re-fitted relays under the dash, wiggled wires on other relays/switches in engine bay and checked battery connections, all with no result on trying to start.I would be grateful for any further thoughts/advice. I am thinking the results point to the solenoid..? If so, is that an easy replacement?ThanksJon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 30, 2018 Member Share Posted May 30, 2018 Reduced lists from the other thread: Where did you connect the jump leads? Any hint of it turning over or a click with them on? What's the battery voltage at rest, minimum as you try to start and at 3,000 rpm? What type of battery and how old? Fluid level if relevant?I can't tell if the problem lies in the solenoid yet. But yes, they're quite easy to replace. And many faults in solenoids and starter motors (and alternators) can be fixed by local specialists. Where are you?JonathanPS: I'm interested in why you started a new thread on the same problem. I had to flick back to see what you'd already done towards reaching a diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Arundel Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 From past experience but not on Ks the solenoid throws the pinion forward and at the end of its travel engages an electrical contact inside the solenoid which connects power to the starter motor. The contacts in the solenoid become eroded and coked up over time by arcing. If you can access the internals of the solenoid you can clean and `bend` the contacts to achieve a good result (some solenoids have detachable end covers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted May 30, 2018 Area Representative Share Posted May 30, 2018 'K' click theories & fixes abound but you have the true 'K click' problem that of the solenoid degrading under all the heat from the primaries.The solenoid in most cases can be replaced. Then put an 18 gauge heat shield over the starter motor.As per posts 10, 11 & 12 in this thread the K click is caused primarily by the solenoid giving up. All other so called fixes are just sticking plasters over the real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_SV Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 JonathanLaziness on my part for starting a new thread - I should have searched for the original .. Now done more tests: 1. No sound from solenoid when turning on ignition; definite 'click' from MFRU when pressing starter button.2. Jump leads connected to +ve terminal and engine ground terminal; clear increase in battery voltage (12.4 - 13.6) but no effect on starting.3. Poweramp battery, ~2 years old; sealed. 12.4V; after jump starting - idling voltage 13.7 rising to 13.8 at 3000 rpm4. Full continuity down main lead from battery to solenoid with 12.4V at solenoid. Voltage dropped to ~11.5 when pressing starter button.After looking at other websites, I tried testing voltages across the solenoid connections at various points: I am not sure the results are very good. With ignition off, there is full 12.4V between the 2 main solenoid terminals (from battery & solenoid to starter), same between main terminal and the small wire from the relay, and (I think) between the small wire and the starter terminal (but that might be my memory). I am based near Corby with easy access to Leicester/Northampton.Grateful for any further advice.Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 30, 2018 Member Share Posted May 30, 2018 I used a fly lead from the solenoid to the battery to bypass the relay but no response.I checked the voltage to the solenoid lead and it flicks to full voltage (12.5V) when pressing the starter button.Voltage dropped to ~11.5 when pressing starter button.and the battery and charging seem OK.As long as that fly lead was fat enough and you got a good connection the solenoid is prime suspect. I'd take it somewhere local... any recommendations, anyone?JonathanPS: Thanks for the straight answer! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 30, 2018 Member Share Posted May 30, 2018 ... at a push!:-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Jon, if you can bump start it and get it over to mine (near Loughborough) some time on Sunday we'll either have you up and running or at least have a diagnosis in no time. I've got spare MFRUs, relays, wires, terminals, multimeters, even a spare solenoid... and even a spare starter at a push! Can spare an hour or two pretty much whenever on Sunday... drop me a BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Jon, if you can bump start it and get it over to mine (near Loughborough) some time on Sunday we'll either have you up and running or at least have a diagnosis in no time. I've got spare MFRUs, relays, wires, terminals, multimeters, even a spare solenoid... and even a spare starter at a push! Can spare an hour or two pretty much whenever on Sunday... drop me a BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Just to report back... Jon came round to my house tonight and we had a good look at it. Healthy voltage at the solenoid but no sign of it trying to pull in. Confirmed with a "jump wire" on the solenoid that the problem was internal to the starter.After wrestling for a while with corroded bolts we fitted my spare starter and everything then worked fine.I've subsequently had a play with the old starter. On the bench the starter was making a bit of a click when energising the solenoid but the gear wasn't moving out. Coil resistance was bit lower than that of a spare solenoid I had, so suspecting an internal short in the solenoid I swapped it over but still no joy. Off the starter, the old solenoid pulled in strongly when energised.So it looks like the internal mechanism inside the motor which allows the solenoid to drive the gear into engagement is just seized or jammed. Simple case of a knackered starter in the end. I'll pull it apart and see if it's anything obvious when I have a bit of spare time.In the meantime Jon is back on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 4, 2018 Member Share Posted June 4, 2018 Well done. Thanks for the update.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Actually ...It was slightly simpler than I thought! I pulled the old starter apart and couldn't find anything wrong. Then I remembered that starter solenoids have two windings internally, a low current "hold in" coil which earths through the case and a high current "pull in" coil with earths through the motor, and is therefore turned off once the solenoid reaches full engagement and turns the motor on. When testing with the spare solenoid, I'd stupidly forgotten this and not bothered to hook up the motor connection, which meant I was only testing the "hold in" winding - and that's why it replicated the fault; the "pull in" winding on the original solenoid had burned out, confirmed as open circuit with a resistance check.A new solenoid and the old starter is good as new again You can have it back whenever you want Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_SV Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 Revilla has been an absolute star and epitomises the spirit of the club. It was no mean feat to remove the starter as the bolts were seized, taking quite a time in the drizzle! His investigations have resulted in a much simpler (and cheaper) repair than the initial diagnosis, and I have found out much more about how starters work!I will be heading back to see Revilla soon to retrieve my reconditioned starter and return his spare. To note, it appears the original model is no longer available.Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Well done Revilla. That’s great support!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Revilla has been an absolute star and epitomises the spirit of the club.I can certainly second that. Well done, Andrew!JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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