re: MOT changes

[Paul_Hedley]

Can anyone point me at the specifics of the coming MOT changes relevant to emissions on a 1997 amateur built car (it's a 21 with a retro-fitted C20XE)?  I've just had a tester fail it on the Lamda test, and insist that he has to do a full test (it's always been covered on the 'visual check' before).

I understand too, I think, that the new rules don't actually come into effect until 20 May.

Any insight anyone can give would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

[Jonathan Kay]

Recent discussion, with links to documents.

Changes to Section 8, including emissions.

Jonathan

[John Vine]

...emissions on a 1997 amateur built car...

As far as your recent MOT is concerned, the key is the date of first use.

The current MOT Manual (applicable up to 20 May 2018) states:

For emissions purposes only, kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998 and Wankel rotary-engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987 are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975.

The applicable rules are in here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/676700/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles-19th-edition.pdf

Page 23 states:

CATERHAM CARS
The VIN Code consists of the 6th letter of the VIN, then engine code is the 8th and 9th digit. Where the 6th digit is 'C' or 'K' and the 10th digit (year code) letter W or before the vehicle concerned should be considered as 'amateur built' and as such should receive a visual smoke test only. Note that '?' can be any figure.

So, what are characters 6 and 10 of your VIN?  If they are K (kit-built) and V (1997) respectively, the tester should have applied a "visible smoke test" only.

 

As JK's references point out, the new MOT Manual (applicable from 20 May 2018) states:

For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:

• kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998
• Wankel rotary engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987
• Q plated vehicles

Kit cars

Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c doesn't show any limits, you must test it to the limits based on the date the vehicle was first used.

This document describes the new MOT rules.  As far as I can tell, amateur-built cars first used before 1 Aug 1975 will now have to meet specific HC and CO limits (but see post #7):

 

(It doesn't help that the date in the decision box omits the year!)

I've yet to discover the effect of installing an engine older (or younger) than the car.

JV

[Paul_Hedley]

Thank-you both.  As far as I understand the detail, the tester is wrong to insist on a lamda element to the test (I think my mechanic said I was fine on both HC and and CO anyway) even against the 2018 rules, which haven't actually come in yet either!

Paul

[John Vine]

 As far as I understand the detail...

Well, it all hinges on those two VIN characters!

As far as the new rules are concerned, I'm happy to do a bit more research.  I have (or had) a contact in VOSA/DVSA, so I'll put a couple of questions to him, and report back.

JV

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Paul

I last saw your 21 at Ratrace but hear you are not local to Potters Bar/Barnet.

If the car has previous notes of "visible smoke only" telephone VOSA. They will contact the testing station.

[John Vine]

As far as I can tell, amateur-built cars first used before 1 Aug 1975 will now have to meet specific HC and CO limits:

That flowchart is mightily misleading.  The missing year is, I believe, 1986.  If so, the existing "used before 1 August 1975" rule is unchanged, and the "visible-smoke test" will continue to apply after the new MOT rules come in.

JV

[Drumster]

This has been posted today in the Kit Car section of PH

This appeared today on the Complete Kit Car magazine facebook page.....

We've just received a call from the Department for Transport confirming that they will not proceed with the part of the emissions regulation proposals that affected kit cars. There were over 2000 responses to the consultation.
A Department for Transport spokesperson said:

“The UK’s specialist vehicle industry is thriving – it creates jobs and gives enjoyment to many, with products exported all over the world. We are grateful to the over 2000 kit and replica car enthusiasts, manufacturers and suppliers who took part in this consultation. Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.”

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks for posting that. I've copied it to the thread discussing the consultation.

Jonathan

[paul jacobs]

I fear that the problem Paul will have, is that as most 21's were factory built, his VIN code may not show the car as being amateur built, as so few were.   If this does prove to be the case a way around it could be to have a Statement from either Caterham Cars or myself, as the original builder, that it was actually amateur built and delivered as a kit for building.

Of course, the VIN code may show that it was supplied as a kit, in which case, the relevant kit rules will apply.

Paul, if you need any confirmation from me, don't hesitate to BM me.

Best of luck with it.

Paul.

[John Vine]

I fear that the problem Paul will have, is that as most 21's were factory built, his VIN code may not show the car as being amateur built ...

So, what is character #6 of the VIN?  (Please BM me if you don't wish to make this public.)

JV

[Paul_Hedley]

Thanks everyone - interesting to hear that PH post re Dept of Transport.

Having checked the VIN, it does fulfil the amateur built criterion in digit 6, so I can only conclude that the tester (despite insisting that he was following the procedure correctly when challenged) was wrong.

As it happens while the test at a second test centre was fine on emissions, while the car was on the 'shaking' jig, the brazing on the lower passenger side wishbone cracked .....

Onwards and upwards!

Paul

[John Vine]

Having checked the VIN, it does fulfil the amateur built criterion in digit 6, so I can only conclude that the tester (despite insisting that he was following the procedure correctly when challenged) was wrong.

Well, that's very good news.  And if the tester was indeed wrong (as now seems certain), surely you were entitled to a free re-test?

As already noted, DVSA states that, to establish amateur-build status plus visual-smoke test, character #6 must be C or K and #10 must be W (1998) or earlier.  So, for the benefit of other owners who may encounter the same problem in the future, can you tell us what your two characters are?   

...the brazing on the lower passenger side wishbone cracked .....

That is indeed scary, but better under test than on the road, I suppose.  And which rather reminds me of my S-in-L's incident when he stuffed his 7 into the tyre wall at Quarry after the nearside lower wishbone broke. 

When my 7 was MOT'd recently, I offered to sit in the car and operate the controls as usual.  This time, the tester advised against, pointing out that he now had a new rig, and that the car would be subjected to a considerable shaking.  He was right, and I was amazed at the pummelling the front suspension received.  I was left wondering whether the suspension (and wishbones in particular) were ever designed to withstand such treatment? 

JV

[Paul_Hedley]

For clarity, according to my V5C, the two relevant characters for my car are:

Digit 6 - K

Digit 10 - V

I'll be following up to try to either get a free retest, or a refund.

Thanks all

Paul

[John Vine]

Thanks, Paul.  Very useful.

I fail to see how they could possibly refuse either a retest or a refund.  Good luck!

JV

[John Vine]

As far as the new rules are concerned, I'm happy to do a bit more research.  I have (or had) a contact in VOSA/DVSA, so I'll put a couple of questions to him, and report back.

Well, I asked DVSA these questions:

1. Is a Caterham two-seater, amateur-built and first registered in 1997, currently required to pass the lambda emissions test, or does the "visible-smoke test" still apply?

2. What effect, if any, will the new MOT rules have regarding how the car is to be tested for emissions from 20 May 2018?

I received this reply from the "Vehicle Testing and Roadworthiness Team":

"Not all Caterham’s are amateur built so if there is an exact match in the emissions data book then that test applies as Caterham have provided the data for the vehicles that are factory built. If the vehicle is not an exact match then a visual emission test applies."

I then asked what the "emissions data book" was, and they explained:

"The booklet explains the test procedures used to check vehicle exhaust emissions which Testers and Vehicle Examiners will follow whether at the roadside or during the MOT test. It contains, in the Annex, emissions limits for vehicles fitted with advanced emissions control systems such as three way catalytic converters, and offers general advice to motorists and vehicle operators on submitting vehicles for test. The booklet deals separately with petrol-engined vehicles and those with diesel engines.

Please find the link below taken form GOV.UK

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/676700/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles-19th-edition.pdf"

(Linky)

This is the guide referenced in post #3 (albeit with a different URL).

JV

[EEK]

Now I am confused, looking at the Caterham part in the  annex of the linked document then the preamble about K and age is consistent with my understanding but then on some specific cars e.g. Seven Vauxhall 2.0i HPC 16v VIN Code S or K Engine Code VJ there is data, so a sixth digit K VIN that is not a visual test.

Am I reading this correctly?

 

[Tony P]

Does that imply that an amateur-built Seven could be subject to the same test as a factory-built model of (nominally) the same model type or with the same broad model name, regardless of the detailed spec? Or have I misunderstood?

[Strangely]

EEK, TonyP, the visual test is only applied if the car is was amateur built before SVA came in 1997. I'd guess that the reason why the specific model that EEK mentioned is listed as requiring an emissions check, including kit-built ones, is because that type of engine (8th, 9th letter of VIN) was never fitted before SVA.

>Seven Vauxhall 2.0i HPC 16v VIN Code S or K Engine Code VJ

Engine codes VI and VJ are for Vauxhall engines, so I'd guess that VJ came later, post-SVA, so if the car has that engine then it must be new enough to require emissions testing, even if it was amateur-built.

 

[John Vine]

Am I reading this correctly?

You need to read VIN characters #6 and #10 together.  Where #6 is C or K, and #10 is W (=1998) or earlier, the visible-smoke check applies.  Thus amateur-built cars first used after 1998 will be subject to the full emissions check.

Note that the DVSA guide works on chassis year, whereas the MOT Manual works on the SVA implementation date (1 August 1998). So there's an ambiguity in the rules for registrations between 1 August and 31 December 1998, and I guess you could successfully argue for just a visible-smoke test for these.

JV

[John Vine]

Does that imply that an amateur-built Seven could be subject to the same test as a factory-built model of (nominally) the same model type or with the same broad model name, regardless of the detailed spec?

Yes, if VIN character #10 is later than W (1998).   This table shows the codes for character #10:

(From here)

JV