Phil Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I have a 1990 1700ss dd and it was supplied to me with a fresh mot last year, it has just had its first MOT since and it has failed on one thing only, the head lamps give no pattern, the MOT station seems to think they are French h/lamps, when I purchased the car the h/lamps had lucas [black tape style] beam convertors and the garage said the owner had recently taken the car abroad. The questions are Do I have any comback on the garage, supplier, for supplying an illigal car, ie no MOT. Where is the best place to get some replacement lights. Thanks for any help given. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Chan Posted February 27, 2003 Area Representative Share Posted February 27, 2003 Phil, Maybe another cheaper option is to look for a more friendly MOT station in the area 😳 If you are in Staffordshire, we certainly have a decent garage over here - I can't remember that the beam pattern was checked on my inspection! Presumably when you drive the car at night, no one flashes (oo-er, missus) you to show that you are dazzling them? And the lights give satisfactory performance Ask if anyone knows a decent garage in your area on ChitChat Cheers Nick Yellow HPC - A 2.0 VX - 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Phil why don't you go back to the garage you purchased the car from for a mot ,and if it fails ask why as you bought the car from them with a full mot one year ago. if they pass the car without any problem wait till they write the certificate and you have in your possession then ask how they are able to pass the car with incorrect beam pattern on the head lights . you now have them by the short and curlys if they don't repair it . you are going to contact the ministry .address on the back of the mot certificate don't tell them about the lights when you book it in for the mot. and don't book in to my garage please 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Why did you take the stickers off? You'll need them to pass the MOT or new headlamps..... Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Just a thought - you say "gave no pattern" ? LHD h/lights would give a pattern - just dipping the other way - the slope of the pattern going up to the right as opposed to our going up to the left (and i bet I've got that the wrong way round!). What it sounds more like is what my nice Pug 106 (for sale by the way) failed on last night - no pattern in offside headlight - the bulb holder had come adrift from the headlamp - therefore no focus - suggest you check that the bulbs are still securely clipped into place. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Thanks for the replies. Your MOT station is safe, I live in Bournemouth and I purchased the car about a 160 miles away from where I live and at this point I do not wish to give there name up. Why did I take the stickers off? Yes why did I take them off? DOH!! I am well happy with the garage I go to as they are a father and son team who have been there for years and have always helped me out. As I was told there was no pattern and you have had the same problem on your pug 106, I will be checking that my bulbs are secure first thang tommorow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 You can see the pattern on the glass that produces the dip pattern. It's a squared off triangle shape from the centre of the light to the outside edge on the left side of the glass (facing out from the bulb, on the UK dip headlights). This shape is clearer than the rest of the reflector which is all ripply. Very obvious. If you have french dip (sounds like a salad dressing....) headlights then it will be on the other side of the glass. Oddly enough it's the same shape as the black tape bit that you stick on to "convert" LHD to RHD or vice verse. New headlights are really cheap, not worth the hassle of bothering the seller I wouldn't think, definetely not worth the cost of booking a second MOT. The best ones you can buy are cibie h-180's which are under 20 quid each from Demon, plus a pair of blubs for about a fiver. Cheap halogen ones like wipac are about a tenner each and the cheapest sealed beam units are about a fiver each. Don't mess about just change them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 What page are cibie 180 under £20 they can't be a head light not at this price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Page 144 item 7 H180 main, dip with sidelight £19.76. This is not a headlight just the glass lens unit to fit into the headlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 The dip beam pattern is not created by the pattern on the glass, the pattern is there for masking the beam pattern with the tape that you removed. The dip beam pattern is a function of the shield above the bulb element and the rotation of the bulb (and hence sheild) from the horizontal. To convert left hand drive lights to right hand drive look carefully at the rotational offset of the bulb from the horizontal, if it is say 10 degrees clockwise than modify the mounting to give a location of 10 degrees anti clock wise. After this if you need to mask the lenses for continental use the maskin area will be the mirror image of what is on the lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I think that's bollocks (with all respect!). They wouldn't go to all the effort of changing the mould for the lens just for the one in a million people who use LHD cars abroad. The reason you stick the black cover there is because that's the bit that makes the pattern. I agree the shield under the dip beam filament gives part of the dip light pattern, but it's the horizontal cut off, the angled bit that points at the left kerb in UK doesn't come from the shield it comes from the pattern on the lens. Just had a look at an H4 bulb to check and I'm even more sure I'm right, the shield under the filament is uniform, it has no angled bit to produce the horizontal cut off with a separate angled bit on the left. Even more telling is the fact that if you were right then there would be left hand and right hand H4 blubs and there aren't. Th only thing I can't explain is how the latest plain glass headlights fitted to most top of the range cars get the same effect. There must be another shield, separate from the bulb in front of it. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Sorry Chelspeed, i think JR is righter than you! Two examples - my Integrale - to go back to its homeland, I removed the battery and air filter, loosen three screws in the back of the headlight, rotate whole bulb holder assy (I forget which way, but the other way to what it is now!) and tighten back up, replace battery and air cleaner - hey presto - headlights dip the other way. Eg 2 - Pug 106 - when I checked properly, I had actually knocked the whole bulb holder out of the back of the light - on the second attempt at re-fiting, I noticed a small tang at the bottom of the holder - this fits into one of two small slot sin the back of the plastic headlamp unit - aligning it to RHD or LHD dip - inclining the bulb a noticeable amount either way off vertical. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Riches Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Back in the dim darks, sorry no pun intended, my Renault 10, (UGH ! ! !) had Cibie headlamps with the same bulb aligning tangs mentioned above, rotate one way for R/H drive and 'tother for L/H, do Cibie headlamps have a common glass for all markets?, makes sense. regards Nigel. 1982. 5 speed, clamshells. B.R.G / Ali. The True Colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Interesting, must check some more...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted March 5, 2003 Leadership Team Share Posted March 5, 2003 My old BMW 5-Series has a small lever on the top of the unit - just move it across to drive on the continent! Obviously this is a compromise situation - lhd models have a different lens to give the best light spread, but the set up is definately a combination of bulb position and lens design. Blanking out the "clearish" triangle for continental use eliminates the intense beam section of the spread intended to be slightly left of dead ahead for rhd cars - obviously undesirable if driving on the right. Roatating the bulb affects the rest of the pattern. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom7 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I must admit that when I read the title my first thought was that it must nearly blind you each time you turn them on. 😬 😬 😬 Sorry I'll go and lie down now Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buda Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 damned fine if your going backwards at night though 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Chelspeed. - no offence taken When we meet to buy / sell the tunnel cover we can look at a few of the left and right hand drive headlamps that I have kicking around. I have 2 sets of Galaxy headlights L&RHD where the differences in the bulb orientation and the mirroring of the masking cut off lines can be seen. I found all this out by accident by having two cars which at MOT time turned out to have LHD headlamps, one was my old seven where I had bought a replacement cibie lens (cheap!) from Redline which turned out to be LHD which we all found amusing!. I also have some very cheap 5" seven lights that I bought from a tractor shop in france which I plan to convert, my mate has already done his by rotating the bulbholder. The question to ask is does the pattern on the glass bend or cut off the beam?. I dont believe that it does as it is not a prism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9, 2003 Author Share Posted March 9, 2003 Thanks everyone as I have an MOT now and this was achieved by placing the beam deflectors on the oposite side from the norm, just have to find a new set of Cibie headlamps at my leisure. Big thanks to my girlfriend Smudge for the help with setting up my hand brake and fitting the new cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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