Mucus72 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 There are increasing numbers of motorbike batteries using Li ion that are really light. There is one on eBay right now which is 775g. Versus about 8kg for a Banner. This is serious weight loss. What is the advice here if any of you have experience please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 9, 2018 Member Share Posted January 9, 2018 There's a lot on this in the archives. My summary: There are now several happy Members. They seem to work fine in 7s and cold weather (by UK standards) hasn't been a problem. They're very light and very expensive.I'd be prepared to fit one, but don't think they're worth it... yet. I'd be very wary of one that didn't have known provenance and previous reports.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Thanks JK. Some of these batteries are in the price range of £75-£100. I’d say that’s amazing price for a considerable weight loss. More and more seem to be flooding into the market. Feedback I’ve had for cold starts is to prewarm by turning on your headlights for a bunch of seconds first. I’d also want a slick bracket/clamp for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Thanks JK. Some of these batteries are in the price range of £75-£100. I’d say that’s amazing price for a considerable weight loss. More and more seem to be flooding into the market. Feedback I’ve had for cold starts is to prewarm by turning on your headlights for a bunch of seconds first. I’d also want a slick bracket/clamp for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 What do people make of this product:http://www.kitcardirect.co.uk/ultrabatt-lithium-battery-728-grams.htmlI couldn’t see any technical data for the battery. Jonathan, could you advise on what Ah battery one would need for a 2.0l Duratec fitted with a isolator/battery master switch? Occasional weekend/dry weather use, currently stored in the garage over the winter and fired up for a short run up to temp about once a month.Kind regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 10, 2018 Member Share Posted January 10, 2018 I don't have a good answer, but let's see if we can creep up on that.But first the warnings: The two widely quoted figures represent the amount of energy deliverable from the battery, typically measured in Ah (happy to argue about units and whether this is "energy" or "charge"), and the maximum current that can be delivered eg at cranking, typically measured in A. But I don't think that the way these are measured is particularly consistent between manufacturers, I have never seen an independent test for this sort of battery, and at least two suppliers actually use incorrect (rather then merely deprecated) units. Current drain at rest varies considerably between 7s. And some 7s live on *conditioning chargers, some have isolator switches, and some use nothing at all: this is crucial when considering how much energy needs to be stored and Andrew has worked through some of the numbers.Here goes: The Magneti Marelli MM-ION-15 is rated at 32 Ah and 540 A cranking. The Varley Lithium Li5 is rated at 5.5 Ah and 335 A cranking. What battery do Caterham fit for your sort of Duratec? I'll then look up the spec for that.Jonathan* Some conditioning chargers now claim to be optimised for lithium batteries, but I don't know how much this matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Thanks for looking into this Jonathan... My car currently has a Banner battery fitted, although I can’t get you the current spec as I’m out of the country at present but will be able to look soon. The car is a 2009 R500 Duratec however I’m not the first owner, I purchased it in September 2017 from Caterham as an approved used Seven.If there are any recommended batteries for a reasonable price I’d consider swapping to something lighter in mass, just so long as it is a suitable spec and can be securely held in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverSedlacek Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm really pleased with my Skyrich 15Ah Lithium battery, which only cost £150 ish from memory. Mind you, with no immobiliser on my trusty XFlow I don't have a problem leaving it for weeks anyway. An isolator switch might be good on a more modern car, but the weight saving per £ is unbeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 10, 2018 Area Representative Share Posted January 10, 2018 Current Banner is 35Ahr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JMT-Lithium-Ion-Battery-HJTX20H-FP-For-Kymco-MXU-700-i-4x4-LOF-2015/302153486236?hash=item4659c04f9c:g:OnAAAOSw9-FZ4OLeThis was £138 when I bought mine High compression Duratec is no problem for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 11, 2018 Member Share Posted January 11, 2018 The Magneti Marelli MM-ION-15 is rated at 32 Ah and 540 A cranking. The Varley Lithium Li5 is rated at 5.5 Ah and 335 A cranking.Skyrich YT9B-BS / HJT9B-FP-S: 15 Ah, 190A. JMT Lithium Ion Battery HJTX20H-FP: 7 Ah, 420 A.The storage capacity on the Varley and Skyrich look low. Any experiences in practice, please, with details of how the 7 is kept, see post #6? (Thanks, Oliver.)JonathanPS: To the tune of "If I had a Hammer"... "If we had a wiki... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative SAJC Posted January 12, 2018 Area Representative Share Posted January 12, 2018 Dear AllHappy New year to AllOn the subject of batteries, my Banner "Starting Bull" 12v 30ah battery has decided to give up the ghost, after 5/6 years and was wondering what recommendations you would have for a replacement. My 7 is a Super 7 K series 1600.Would welcome your suggestions and recommendation, and any website to buy from.Thank youSAJC (Simon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 12, 2018 Member Share Posted January 12, 2018 Have you already decided that you definitely want a lithium battery?How is the 7 stored: on a charger, immobilised, battery isolated, long periods? See discussion of energy capacity above.Everything from the archives.Happy New YearJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative SAJC Posted January 12, 2018 Area Representative Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Jonathan - thanks for your prompt reply, my 7 battery is isolated, discounted and yes for long periods , but this is the first time , battery was charged before and started, this time battery charged and it didn't start, as it just died when turned the ignition over.Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 12, 2018 Member Share Posted January 12, 2018 I wouldn't be optimistic but is it the sort that can be topped-up, and do you have a multimeter?And if it is shot... Have you already decided that you definitely want a lithium battery? I've just updated my recommendation for non-lithium types.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I've got a cheap-ish Li Ion in my car. My master swich is a Brise relay and if I forget it on, the car won't start. Otherwise it turns so fast that I was almost scared first time I tried.Could be this https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Lithium-Ion-Motorcycle-Battery-for-KTM-Rc8-R-2009-and-Onwards-LIPO14B/1260147138?iid=122210984733&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3Dbefd0220500f4d0185fde8663909706e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D172442365296&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851It's correct that the capacity isn't huge, but as long as your alternator is up for the job it's not a problem.My car is maninly used on track, but when it's on the road the lights are always on (Legal requirement here). I rarely use the heated windscreen/wipers as the car has an aeroscreen but on the other hand the alternator is smaller than standard so I would think you'd be OK. Of course when the alternator fails (not if, they do!) then you are worse off with a 6Ah battery than with a 30Ah though they have the same cranking capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 The Magneti Marelli MM-ION-15 is rated at 32 Ah and 540 A cranking. The Varley Lithium Li5 is rated at 5.5 Ah and 335 A cranking.But the Varley Li5 Simon Rogers recommends on his Meteor Motorsport site is apparently suitable for Caterhams running Duratecs. The 3rd dimension here is weight. Daniel French i: http://www.caterhamr500.co.uk/2016/11/15kg-10ah-lifepo4-battery-inc-carbon.htmlHe provides 2 option suggestions, a 7.5Ah battery for lower powered cars and a 10Ah one for high end Duratecs.This weigh in at 1.2Kg and 1.5KG respectively.In summary:Varley - 1.1 kg 5AhMagenti - 2kg 32AhDF option 1: 1.2kg 7.5AhDF option 2: 1.5kg 10AhWhat I am looking for is the lightest battery that will work for track days and the odd weekend away blatting, which will start a max of 5 times a day. A few cranks to warm things up (or the headlights on for a few secodns first) doesnt bother me.I just don't know now if the 5Ah Varley is too low a capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 If the Varley Li5 can start my Busa as it does then it can start a Duratec.My Busa is very high compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 25, 2018 Member Share Posted January 25, 2018 What I am looking for is the lightest battery that will work for track days and the odd weekend away blatting, which will start a max of 5 times a day.Will the battery live on a charger when the 7 isn't being used? Is the current drain low when it isn't being used and not on the charger? Does the 7 start well?If all of those are the case the energy storage might not be too important... Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 The Li5 lives on a small 2A trickle charger built for the sole purpose of keeping a lithium topped up.It will not over charge. And only charges when the battery requires it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 (Repeat post, ignore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks Simon, I’ll buy one from you before the track day season starts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Lithium batteries are best stored at 50% charge if they are to last long.No, I don't do it that way either - way to difficult. But still the best way of storing it - if it's the battery you worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivaan Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I fitted a lithium battery to my 7, (Yamaha R1 ), only a few months ago. It normally kept on lithium specific smart charger, but recently left it off for a couple of days. Seems I have a parasitic discharge going on, that flattened the battery in that time. I think I've found the culprit ( self canceling indicator unit ), but the battery now won't hold a charge!As once as they go flat they're knackered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Most of these batteries have a protection circuit built in. I have a relay as master switch which discharges the battery as well. I have more than once forgotten to cut power and it still works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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