Area Representative Paul Richards Posted August 11, 2017 Area Representative Share Posted August 11, 2017 Big heads all round. Cable tie ones for front of wing threaded studs for rear of wing. Fasten big heads to stays. Put dab of adhesive on each big head. Position wing and with car on axle stands hold wing in position with ratchet strap around the wheel. Leave over night. Remove wings with big heads attached and put lots more adhesive on big heads with gravity helping you. Using this method you can remove wings easily to facilitate jobs and easily inspect adhesive. Plus you can also use the studs to attach mud flaps (if you wish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 When I built my car (2015) it wouldn't have passed the IVA with cable tied wings. Perhaps things used to be different or have changed since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 cable tied wings? Have you seen such an installation? It's nothing whatever like "cable tied wings" characterises it. In addition to that it is a tested solution that has worked safely and effectively for years. Cable ties are used by manufacturers for all sorts of things. In addition to that there are many things apparently done solely to pass the IVA never to be seen again, though I am not inclined to suspect this is one of them. If you really had a concern the ties could be replaced with an alternative tying solution, though cable ties are the best in my view, being also possibly sacrificial in the case of an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Yes, I've seen such an installation and I'm well aware of what cable ties can do. I'm just telling you what I was told when my car went for IVA, it wasn't the result of any concern of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Yes, I've seen such an installation and I'm well aware of what cable ties can do. I'm just telling you what I was told when my car went for IVA, it wasn't the result of any concern of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 12, 2017 Member Share Posted August 12, 2017 I had plenty of time to create a partial sausage roll effect...Any reason for not going for the whole thing... it could completely change the critical failure mode...Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 12, 2017 Member Share Posted August 12, 2017 ...the received wisdom was NOT to glue things directly to the stays. In short the solution was and mine still continues to be since.. so long I forget and my wings are easily removable and haven't come off or loose:I lost two*, and one cracked the windscreen early in its bid for freedom.I then read everyone else's experiences, opinions and experiences. Apart from that advantage of easy removal I concluded that proper prior preparation prevented etc. And used a full sausage roll of Sikaflex 221 and no other fasteners. Anyone prepared to do the ultimate trial: one wing one way and the other the other? :-)Jonathan* Carelessness or coincidence: but either way I'm not Wilde about the original Bond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twincamtim Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Jonathan - on examination of both stays it was clear to me that partly poor previous preparation prevented proper performance and so I made a damn good job of it this time! I bottled the full sausage roll, partly because it would have meant removing the indicator wiring from the stay (I forgot about this until I had the tube open....) and also because I was worried I might not have enough stuff in the tube. Poor planning etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Jonathan, you lost two?! That deserves some attention. My first curious question is whether this was cable ties that broke? To lose an entire wing would require eight cable ties to break at once and without warning (i.e. simultaneously). Though from your words I am wondering if it was the adhesive aspect that failed, the front failing first and ripping off the rear as the wind got underneath. Before using the current solution, I did have what I called a "flying wing" one time in Portugal when hissing down with rain, but in this case I spotted it before ultimate takeoff and was able to effect a "get me to base camp" solution. It strikes me that all solutions not involving some sort of screw-wing-to-stay idea will require adhesive to carbon and that is a common point of failure if the adhesive is not applied in a way that remains effective. As such your case isn't about cable ties unless my initial question obtains a positive response i..e they all broke.AnthonyScott: by whom were you told? I can't help wondering if anything, but screws etc would be refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 all this casting doubt on every solution found to have worked seems to me to beg the question how a wiki will ever work. We need to see every way that works and solutions for any problems for each one - not "nay saying". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 12, 2017 Member Share Posted August 12, 2017 ... both fronts! :-(In the initial build I didn't remove the powder coating, used some sort of Sikaflex, and only made a sandwich. My next mistake was in a different category: not removing and correctly refixing the other front wing after the first one came off.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 12, 2017 Member Share Posted August 12, 2017 all this casting doubt on every solution found to have worked seems to me to beg the question how a wiki will ever work. We need to see every way that works and solutions for any problems for each one - not "nay saying".One of the advantages of a multiauthor wiki will be that all of the different *experiences, views and opinions and who holds them can be in one place. There's no need for consensus if we do it right. The next reader will then easily be able to see all of them and make up her own mind. In comparison at the moment she has to know that there are differences and crack the searching, or wait for some but possibly not all of the proponents to respond all over again to each new thread on the same subject. If they can be bothered.Jonathan* Amended, see below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 well, exchange the word views for experiences and I agree with that, I think. sikaflex, good timing, I was wondering if gluing the stays themselves requires the paint to be removed so one is not sticking wings to paint. The bigheads are a plastic to plastic solution... etc.. yes I share your pain as regards when "one fails not fixing the other too". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 12, 2017 Member Share Posted August 12, 2017 well, exchange the word views for experiences and I agree with that, I think. Amended, thanks.sikaflex, good timing, I was wondering if gluing the stays themselves requires the paint to be removed so one is not sticking wings to paint.I think that mine failed by the powder coat lifting off the metal, and concluded that that was one of the crucial factors: clean bare metal, clean GRP, the right Sikaflex product, and the sausage roll.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 You mention yours is GRP: another difference in all this is I am referring to Carbon Fibre (CF) and I have noticed participants tend to be specific about this material, whether there is a difference for GRP I have no "wings adhesive" experience. Both are of course a fibrous material, so there is a temptation to think they are the same in this discussion, but I cannot say with authority. It occurs to me also that GRP weighs a lot more (as opposed to the nothing of CF) so vibration will have more energy (kinetic or potential I forget which). I can't help wonder why not use GRP itself to form a sausage which may then be slide offable (from the stay) and fixable with a little bit of sikaflex, but I can't say a sausage sounds like something I'd want to do (more sikaflex on me than the car). I presume the stay forms the sausage in the roll. I cannot recall if GRP sticks well to itself .. I think it does if prepared right (rough boat building decades ago so it's a bit hazy). All that said I'd just bolt GRP to the stays, because it doesn't strip/tear itself like CF (done that, involved a French fence). However, these are just my musings given the focus to which you drew me. :-) p.s. i.m.e. said bolts over time are a service item because of rust/corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmurray325hotmail.com Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Always found stainless steel "Bigheads" and stainless steel tyraps as per the late and much missed "richard in france" (R i F) stick the bigheads on with sikaflex or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graemesmith Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 As per the previous post. I used Bigheads and Stainless Steel tyraps. Did that mainly for the IVA as I'd heard some centres fail the nylon ones. No issues at all with mine - IVA'd fine just a couple of months ago. Used Sikaflex 292i as it is the recommended one for bonding keels onto yachts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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