Rear led lights

[David aka Blue7]

Hi Buds

Re our chat about your replacement rear led light clusters during the Lancaster bomber event, I have had a look at your site and will probably place an order this week. 

http://​www.justaddlightness.co.uk

One question, is there any difference in brightness between the clear lens and the standard red / amber lens?  I had the clear lenses on my last 7 but the tail / brake lights were not that effective using led bulbs through a clear lens so I joined a BC bulk buy to purchase lenses with red side / brake lens and clear indicator lens.  I haven't got around to fitting them to my present 7 so still using the standard lenses.

The clear lenses look better (IMO), but are the leds still as bright as they would be through the standard red / amber lenses?

Probably a daft question because I have a clear rain light fitted as a high level brake light and it is very bright ... as you probably noticed :)

David

 

 

[JAL]

Hi David,

Good to hear from you.

Our LED panels have been designed to work perfectly on any type of lens with no difference in brightness. The 72 OSRAM LED's on each panel are colored red and amber so they can be used with the clear and standard lenses or any combination of both. 

Another point is the actual LED panel itself is white making it virtually invisible through the clear lens when the lights are not in use.

There is no comparison between LED bulbs and our LED Panel when it comes to brightness. I tried every LED bulb on the market trying to improve my rear lights and they only made a minimal difference. Our LED panel upgrades Caterham's rear lights to 21st Century performance whilst retaining the original look.

If you have any other questions then let me know.

Doug

 

 

[David aka Blue7]

Thanks Doug, I will be placing my order today and go for the clear lenses plus the replacement relay because without the new replay I think the flashing sequence will be too quick.

I don't see an option on your website to select units with clear lenses, it seems as if I would have to buy the complete unit with standard lenses for £99 each and in addition clear lenses at £12.99 each?  Can I just order two complete units with clear lenses at £99 each?  I already have 4 standard lenses plus the two presently fitted.

David

[JAL]

Hi David,

You will need to change your flasher relay to a more modern electronic type to allow you to have the correct flasher timing with any LED/Bulb combination.

Unfortunately you have to buy the clear lenses separately. The manufacturer of the lamps/lenses can supply the cluster with the clear lens fitted but the price trebles! The cheapest way for me and for you to purchase them is separately.

Please PM me your email address.

Doug

 

 

[Julian H]

Hello Doug

Have you compared to the "plasma" LEDs that are now available. I would agree about normal LED bulbs not being that effective but the Plasma LED ones also give a "hotspot" like a traditional filament bulb that penetrates very well.

 

[JAL]

Hi Julian,

Yes I agree the new plasma LED bulbs are a better product than the normal LED bulbs. However, your description is perfect, they give a bright 'hotspot' like a traditional filament bulb.

When designing our LED panel we was keen to avoid any 'hotspot' effect and bring the Caterham lights up to modern day standards. Our LED panel has 36 super bright, wide angle OSRAM LED's behind both the indicator and the tail/brake lens. This gives the effect of lighting each lens evenly with the maximum amount of light possible.

They have to be seen in action to appreciate the full effect. The general reaction when I show owners my brake lights is.... Wow!

Doug

[W2TKY]

I'm super excited about this product, hoping I'll lose that "has that car behind seen my brakelights or Indicators " cringe I have during long tours.

 

Thinking our little France trip will be even more enjoyable when I get these on Lu-Lu (7)

[Chris-]

Can you supply just 2 panels,

I have blocks and clear lens, as you were, just not finding a great bulb.

[nigelpugh]

Hi Chris,

I asked the very same question of this company, but was told no, they will only supply complete units, which is quite a shame.

As the units are very expensive for what they are at £200 for a pair, it seems that this policy of not just selling the board on its own at a lower cost, will affect unit sales badly.

I would have thought, that the vast majority of Seven owners, perhaps as high as 90% of owners, will already have the lenses and light blocks, whether standard rubber, metal, or carbon Fibre , and would not want to change them back to a standard block again.

As I said, I believe this is a big opportunity missed to sell a very large amount of these units.

Naturally I can't comment on the tooling and setup costs, together with the supply chain min/max unit order thresholds, but it does seem odd that they are not prepared to sell the Led board on its own, as they are obviously buying that unit in complete from one supplier source, then purchasing the rubber block and lenses from another different supplier, and assembling the complete unit in house locally.

To me it would make more sense to concentrate on the board manufacture, increase the number of unit sales of boards on their own, and re negotiate with the manufacturer to reduce the cost based on increased unit volume purchase as a result of higher retail unit sales.

Just an observation and stream of thoughts from me though! 

[ScottR400D]

I tend to agree with you Nigel. 

My only reservation would be that, as CC retail the whole light cluster for £32 (?) or so, supplying the led board on its own might not drop the offer price that much, especially as £99 each is an offer price. 

 

[elie boone]

The led light from Sim 3159 is only 41 + tva a piece

[TomB]

Having recently fitted the bulk buy ali light blocks and new lenses, like Nigel & Scott Id only want to buy the LED inners otherwise Id have to move these on. I presume the block on the whole unit is the nasty rubber block?

[JAL]

Hi all,

Short answer: It has taken a costly 6 months of different designs and prototypes to finally get a product worthy of going to market.The LED panel makes up 90% of the price of the entire product so the amount of money saved by removing the cluster would be minimal. Supplying the cluster does not stop you fitting your own carbon/metal blocks and/or clear lenses. 

Long answer: In the design process it was found we have two options of fitting the panel to the car. 1. Make the panel out of metal or 2. Make a circuit board panel and attach to the car another way.

Making the panel from metal was not a good idea. The circuit tracking would need to sit on top of the metal exposing it to the elements with a risk of rust and early failure of the unit. The number and type of LED's is also restricted resulting in a 'spot' of light in the centre of the lens. Because the number of LED's had been drastically reduced the LED's power had to increase to obtain the same brightness, again this came with a risk of early failure. Additional costs would need to be factored in like supplying spare LED's for customers to fit if one did fail. Lastly the metal panel looked cheap and more importantly the metal colour was visible when tested with a clear lens. The only advantage of the metal plate is we wouldn't have to supply the entire light.

So we started to concentrate on a double layer circuit board panel. This type of board allowed us to recess all of the tracking into the board protecting it from the elements. With no visible tracking we could fill the entire space available with 72 LED's thus producing the preferred full 'square block' of light. The type of LED's could be changed to the more reliable OSRAM flat profile giving much more longevity to the product. The colour of the LED's could match the original lights perfectly and the panel could be manufactured in white making it invisible through the clear lens. This was obviously the preferred product, the only disadvantage being you cannot fix it directly to the car, a bracket of some sort would be required.

The bracket also left us with two options. Have a purpose built bracket designed to fit the original cluster use the original cluster itself. Metal fabrication companies soon pointed out that this was not a desired job. Small quantities would need to be produced by hand which would have a very high cost. Much larger and quantities could be laser cut but this would mean us having several hundred in stock and the final product was still not ideal. The cost of having these panels produced and/or stocked together with supplying new screws was not far off the price of the original cluster. This lead us back to the original light cluster, after all it came with a purpose built fixing bracket. If we remove the bulbs, wires and housing we are left with a new fixing bracket for the panel. The LED panel was then designed to incorporate the original mounting holes and thread for the lens.

So the final panel is desgined to sit ontop of the original metal plate supplied in the cluster. We do all the work for you and supply a ready to fit upgraded LED light cluster complete with grommet and waterproof connector makeing it a true straight swap, 5 minute upgrade. If you already have a different type of block or lens then these can be easily be fitted to replace the original rubber block or lens we supply, our product is designed to work with any type of block or lens. If we supply just the LED panel with no fixing plate then customers would be left modifying their own clusters and their metal plates and I'm sure you can appreciate this is not ideal. 

The margins on this product are minimal and I so far I have invested a considerable sum of time and money. I started this project to upgrade my own 7 and it has quickly developed into much much more. I have had enquires and orders from all over the world and I am treating them on a strictly first come first served basis.

The product may not seem cheap but this is reflected on the quality of the components and the longevity of the product. If the panel was half the price many people would be happy. This would not be the case if the panel failed in a year or two. Like many 7 owners I intend to keep my car for many many years to come and I wanted a product for my car that would stand the test of time.

If you have any other questions then I am always happy to help.

Doug 



 

[Roadsport06]

Doug - thank you for your reply.

Great that someone has finally moved the poor lights to something safer, yet in keeping with the car.

I know exactly your point about not all LEDs are the same, some of the 3rd brake light set up are not bright at all when they are in bright sunlight.

I'll be putting in an order shortly 

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks for the explanation, Doug.

Jonathan

[TomB]

Thanks for the details. Just a thought to allow me to keep the ali light blocks and save just binning the rubber blocks - over winter when I wont be using the car, would you be amenable to be me sending you my ali light blocks and (if required) the original light cluster) you to fit the LED units to? Would that be an avenue we could take? Or would there be no benefit in this approach?

[SLR No.77]

Doug,

Great units, a "real" solution for the rear lights is long overdue!

When we spoke at the 60th you mentioned there might be something we could work regarding a bulk buy, how many units would you want to make this viable?

Stu.

[JAL]

Thanks for the details. Just a thought to allow me to keep the ali light blocks and save just binning the rubber blocks - over winter when I wont be using the car, would you be amenable to be me sending you my ali light blocks and (if required) the original light cluster) you to fit the LED units to? Would that be an avenue we could take? Or would there be no benefit in this approach?

Hi Tom,

Now there is an interesting thought. I would be happy complete the upgrade for you using your current ali blocks and send the working units back to you. However, I can make things easy for you so you may want to consider doing it yourself. I can supply my LED clusters with separate 4 pin connecters (not fitted). This way all you need to do is slide off the rubber block, slide your ali block on and crimp the connectors.  

I'll be happy to move forward in any way that suits you.

 

Great units, a "real" solution for the rear lights is long overdue!

When we spoke at the 60th you mentioned there might be something we could work regarding a bulk buy, how many units would you want to make this viable?

Hi Stu,

Doesn't the 60th seem a like a long time ago?

I am now in a position to work out some bulk buy discounts so let me have a look at the options and I will get back to you today/tomorrow via PM. It's probably best that we discuss via a PM rather than tag everything onto the end of this thread.

Doug 

[TomB]

Doug, me thinks you might find yourself swamped if your not careful! Most owners know the rear lights are shocking, one reason for the LED highlevel brake light. A bulk buy could be very popular.

 

 

[David aka Blue7]

I can't help thinking that a bulk buy discount isn't really appropriate in this instance, the product is available to purchase on line and it isn't as if a special production run of X amount is required to make it profitable and worthwhile?  Maybe a L7 Club member discount but having said that it is already being offered on the website as "introductory offer", which implies that the lights are already discounted.

The product does after all have a limited market ... limited to Caterhams only ... oh yes and also certain types of caravan

 

[JAL]

Doug, me thinks you might find yourself swamped if your not careful! Most owners know the rear lights are shocking, one reason for the LED highlevel brake light. A bulk buy could be very popular.

I will always try my best to see what I can do. Lets see what numbers come back before I choke on my tea.  As David has rightly pointed out the lights are on an introductory offer at the moment until full production starts and as I have previously stated the margins are minimal but I produced this product for specifically for Caterham owners and I will try my best. 

Just to reassure members that have ordered already. If a bulk buy deal is agreed before I ship your order then I will apply the members bulk buy price providing you have notified the organiser that you are part of the group. 

Doug

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Superb explanation Doug. It is interesting how little of the development process people understand; the cost of exploring ideas which turn into dead-ends, the time taken up, the hidden costs of software, tools and research, the testing to check for reliability.

Good luck with the project. I fitted LED rear lights from SVC (3 separate units in a triangular arrangement, similar to the Swiss practice but with LED units), so won't be a client (sorry).

[Jig]

Sorry if I have missed this, but wondered if you would be at Silverstone, Doug? I'd love to see these for real.

[JAL]

Hey Jig, unfortunately I missed out on Silverstone, I would love to be there especially for the parade lap.

However, there will be a certain red 7 owned by Mark at Silverstone (and on the parade lap) with a brand new set of our LED rear light clusters. If any of the other members that now have their LED lights are going then perhaps you could show them off a little.

If any members would like me to attend their local meet then I am happy to pop along and demonstrate the lights. I am happy to travel (within reason) as long as enough people are interested.

Doug

[Jonathan Kay]

You will need to change your flasher relay to a more modern electronic type to allow you to have the correct flasher timing with any LED/Bulb combination.

Doug:

Some relays advertised as being appropriate for LED lamps still seem to be causing problems. How about selling or recommending ones that are known to work?

Jonathan