AMMO Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Does anybody know the bore and strokes of the Zetec S 1250, 1400, 1600 and 1700 cc family of engines? Valve sizes would be nice too. This information must be somewhere on the internet but I can't find it. Thanks AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Managed to find out the Puma 1700 engine dimensions: 80x83.5, destroked to 80x79.4 for Super 1600 engine. Still looking for info on the 1250,1400 and 1600cc lumps which are apparently smaller in size. Thanks AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Nobody can give me this information. Even the Auto Data books no longer quote bores and strokes, only engine capacity. Just wondering if the 1600 Zetec S is worth tuning or not. The Puma 1700 is, but is expensive to buy in comparison. Can anybody, anywhere help? AMMO Edited by - ammo on 24 Feb 2003 13:11:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwb Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 1.6 Zetec SE 79 X 81.4 1.4 Zetec SE 76 X 76.5 1.25 Zetec SE 71.9 X 76.5 Bit of crank commonality here . Steve B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Steve Thanks. Where the hell did you get the numbers? Any chance of valve sizes? The 1600 looks interesting. I spoke to the guys that do the Puma engines to Ford. They have never had a look at the smaller capacity S engines. They do a 1400 rallye engine based on the 1700 Puma which retains the stock 80 mm bore (the block is Nikasil plated) and is de-stroked with the variable cam timing and 1700 throttle body retained. It makes 168 bhp. A little screamer apparently. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwb Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 1,25 In 25.95 - 26.25 Ex 21.95 - 22.25 1,4 In 27.95 - 28.25 Ex 23.95 - 24.25 1,6 In 29.95 - 30.25 Ex 23.95 - 24.25 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 Steve B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6 are all the same base engine design and are a family internally known as the Sigma engine. They are not the same base engine as the old 1.8 and 2.0 litre Zetec. The 1.7 is different still and is a Yamaha derivative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Thanks Steve. Fordy As I understood it the 1250, 1400 and 1600 Zetec S was one family. The 1700 Puma is something different again. The old cast iron Zetec comes in 1600, 1800 and 2000 cc and share the same 88 mm crank. Nobody seems to be tuning these engines. I saw one in a breakers and it looked quite small and cuddly. 1600 supercharged, baby Zetec anyone? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Turner Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ammo Speak to Aldon Automotive in the West Midlands, they have built a very impressive 1700 installed in a Westfield that competes in hillclimbs and sprints. Its tiny (compared to my 2 litre) when all the unnessesary bits are removed. Produces an alleged 195 hp. Don't expect the sump and bellhousing to be cheap. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdg Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Yes Paul... The driver is also tiny and drives it like a rally car. And I don't think it was just the sump and bellhousing that was expensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 The 1700 Puma engine in the Westfield is run by John Palmer and as you say was an expensive engine to create, it latest power output (by the end of last season) was more like 205bhp. If you can find a 1700 out of a Racing Puma these achieved (156bhp) by modding the ECU and a few other bits only, I know cos I had one 😬 😬 😬 The downside of the Puma lump is that the exhaust exits on the wrong side which in Johns case involved more than cust cutting a new hole, lots of bits had to be swapped around to make it fit the engine bay, sweet motor though and light! Graham Competition Secretary Lydden, Curborough, MIRA, Llandow, Loton Park, Curborough, Aintree...What more can you ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Doesn't one of the single seater classes use this as a control engine ? At the motorsport show three years ago there was one on I think the Swindon's stand that was specifically for this that produced 180 BHP. I had a long chat with one of their guys at the time and they were saying that they thought when developed it would produce about the same as a well tuned K although they said it was of a simpler construction. The only drawback I was told was the aforementioned backwards gas flow, compared to the rest of the Ford range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 A man has to have a hobby. I've been looking to buy an engine to disamantle and possibly tune. I'm getting fidgetty and want to look at something new (as if I didn't have enough to do). Pumas and Duratecs are expensive, especially if you don't have an exchange unit. Zetec S are very cheap. As there is nobody tuning the Zetec S it's safe to assume it's not worth it. So I have narrowed it down to either a Puma or a Duratec....I think. Pumas are smaller and lighter but Duratecs have 300 cc more capacity. Hmmmmm...what to do? Think I'll go for a Duratec as the prices are similar. Or should I get a Puma? I suppose I'll buy whichever turns up first at the right price. Duratec? Puma? Whaddayathink? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Fords currently used 4 cylinder gasoline engine families (mainly Europe) are old Cast Iron Block Zetec E family Focus 1.8 (115bhp) and 2.0 litre (130bhp) Cougar 2.0 litre (130 bhp) (did come in a 1.6 too in the Escort/old Mondeo and this family in 2.0 litre was extensively used in the US) All Alloy Ford designed Zetec SE family Focus and Puma 1.4 (90bhp) and 1.6 (102bhp) litre old Fiesta(1.25 (75bhp), 1.4 (80bhp) and 1.6 (100bhp) litre (an evolution is known as Duratec 16V in new fiesta and fusion) All Alloy Yamaha derived Zetec S (variable cam timing) Puma 1.7 litre (125bhp and 160bhp) All Alloy Mazda derived Duratec HE family Mondeo 1.8 (110 or 125 bhp) and 2.0 litre (145 bhp) Focus ST170, 2.0 litre (173bhp, actually named Duratec ST) Focus RS, 2.0 litre turbo (215 bhp, actually named Duratec RS) Ka also uses its own (rather ancient) 1.3 litre design variously known recently as Endura-E or Duratec 8V depending upon power level and evolution. Was also used in the old fiesta. KA will also soon get a 1.6 litre (100bhp) evolution of this family in StreetKA and SportKA. It is becoming more difficult to understand which 'base' engine design each engine derivative comes from because increasingly names such as Duratec and Zetec are being used as powertrain branding rather than reliable descriptors of the base engine family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 Fordy I think the RS Turbo has Duratec on the cam cover but is in fact a Zetec cast iron block engine. Don't know what engine the ST170 has. I got some tech stuff in the post yesterday from an engine supplier. Just to confuse matters even more the cast iron blocked Zetecs are known as MVH418 and MVH420. The ali blocked Duratecs are known as DHE418 and DHV420. I didn't even know the Duratec was available in 1.8 litre form. I'll probably get to see a Puma in bits next week. I've already seen a Duratec in bits a couple of years ago and liked what I saw very much. Probably help me make a decision. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Beware though - Ford had a lot of problems with the early Puma 1700 engines where the Nikasil bore coating wore out in less than 12000 miles . The later engines are said to be good though . Another thought - what is the situation with the Nikasil coated bores when you change to forged aftermarket pistons and new rings ??? , normally you would hone /glaze bust ?????? All the Puma engines had steel cranks . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 I have a lot of experience with Nikasil. Been involved with it since 1981. If the cylinders have already been run you just de-glaze with a flex-hone when you fit new pistons and rings. The trick is in the top ring. If you get that right you will have no problems with Nikasil. Having said all this, I'm definately getting a 2litre Duratec........perhaps. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Yeah I think you're right the Focus RS engine is derived from the 130PS Focus 2.0 litre engine and therefore the Zetec cast iron block in reality. I made the fatal assumption that Duratec meant duratec!! I also discovered that confusingly the new Ka 1.6 8V engine (internally known as Rocam) will be branded as 'Duratec 1.6'. Bearing no relationship whatsover to the Mazda derived Mondeo engines !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Fordy It's easier just to change the name of the engine than to actually change the engine! Makes you think you've got something new when it's just the same old thing. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris K Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 so.. what is the differance between the Duratec Mondeo 2.0 litre (145 bhp) Focus ST170, 2.0 litre (173bhp, actually named Duratec ST) Im guessing its just internals and porting... thinking about a Duratec install as the general understanding I have from Raceline/Dunnell is that the Zetec is a bit old.. and the Duratec is worth the extra expendature.. I managed to get my hands on a internal tech paper about tuning the Duratec for Uk touring cars 2ltr class but this was related to the v6 not the 4pot.. ☹️ Chris Now, Beakie, we'll just flip this switch and 60,000 refreshing volts of electricity will surge through your body. Ready?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted March 1, 2003 Author Share Posted March 1, 2003 Chris The latest shape Mondeo (Mk 3) 145 bhp engine is an ali block Duratec (Iknow because I have been phoning breaker's yards. Missed an engine in Norwich for £600. Poo). The iron blocked Zetec was rated at 130 bhp. I think the ST170 is also iron block Zetec derived, but can't be sure. In the good old days car brochures would show the engine bay, show engine cutawy drawings and quote bores and strokes. People were obviously more interested in those things then. Now it's cup holders, stereos and heated seats. The world is definately in decline. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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