Alan Reeves Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 So a lickle irregular hunting in the engine, 175 Dura..the help points me in some directions so I do the easy one first - Spark Plugsstrangely the middle two cylinders have clearly had lots of standing water in the deep plug recess and whilst one plug came out easily enough the other one has decided to part from its body !!so now I have the plug body stuck in the head and no idea how that can come out short of hoping one of the 7 experts is able to get onto it fairly quicklyThe outer two had no sign of water oh I feel a pocket wrenching blowany thoughts apart from Pee taking welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Just trying to picture exactly what has come out and what has stayed behind. Isn't the hex part that you could get a plug spanner onto a single metal piece with the threaded section screwed into the head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 29, 2017 Member Share Posted May 29, 2017 Just trying to picture exactly what has come out and what has stayed behind.Can you add a photo of the two withdrawn plugs, the intact and the rogered?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 AlanIf you have snapped the ceramic part of the plug and left the metal part in the head I have a magnetic plug socket the should remove the remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 I always put a goodly smear of Ali or copper grease on plug threads so they stand a better chance of coming out next time. If you have snapped off ceramic bit .... the hex bit should still unscrew OK. Tip here is to use a t-handle on the extension with plug socket .... So you apply even force to both handles and stand a better chance of keeping socket vertical. A ratchet handle can easy allow you to do what you have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Alan, aside from the broken plug ! The water issue is puzzling me does your engine not have the cover over the coil packs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Before you attempt to remove the remains of the plug make absolutely sure that there are no remains of the broken ceramic stem. If any fall into the cylinder, they will score the bore for sure. Blow the recess out with compressed air (mind your eyes !) then firkle about with a blob of grease on the end of a screwdriver. M25's tip about even pressure on a T handle to remove plugs in the future is sound advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 The metal hex should still be intact and removable. It may be worth double checking that you have the "right" plug socket for the Duratec. Specifically, a socket that has an external diameter to allow the tool to fully engage around the hex of the plug. Some plug sockets can foul inside the plug recess on the head, and don't engage fully engage the plug hex which often results in the ceramic getting fractured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 If you haven't got a compressor to blow out the ceramic use the vacuum cleaner and give it a suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Reeves Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 Well ive tried posting a response and it keeps clearing before I can hit send, bad hair day or what.short version, I posted on FB and asked where Arnie was and he popped up and popped over.The ceramic side of life was in my hands along with the nut, the thread and the sparky bit at the end were still in the head.Arnie used a long extractor and it took some severe force to break the thread. he reckons 100 lb but considering the amount of force required for the rear wheel assembly I think he used more. the bar was 2 ft long It was a great effort and I am such a happy bunny...not the saving of money but the ability to get it done in what is now a very busy season for 7s and getting them fixed. Thank s to ArnieJohn, JNC, I believe I sucked the detrious out ! Jim I am pretty sure my plug tool is as long and thin as you can get but this plug/nut was breaking down with rust and its not a very deep nut if you see what I mean.JK I will get a picture of the before and afterThanks all for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 30, 2017 Member Share Posted May 30, 2017 Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Oooh -- nasty!The thread on the broken plug appears to have picked up some ali -- or is that just an optical illusion?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 30, 2017 Member Share Posted May 30, 2017 Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 That's clearer - thanks, Jonathan.Well, the threads are well mangled, but perhaps that was caused by the removal tool?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Reeves Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 ooopsthe thread was bashed up in a vice when taking Arnies withdrawal tool out, sorry if that confused.is you look at the multi picture you can see where the body has departed from just above the threaded area.i dont think there is any thread damage in the headenough from me on this but I did post a general warning but it appears that many Dura engines have had issues with seized plugs and not just vented Caterhams, ta JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 30, 2017 Member Share Posted May 30, 2017 ... the thread was bashed up in a vice... I believe the technical expression is "Phew!".:-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Alan, I'd be interested to learn if your hunting issue has been cured with the new plugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Reeves Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Will know after tomorrow's run to brands and back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Thinking outside the box I wonder if the two rusty plugs had become porous where it snapped causing a micro atmosphere making the rust mark being as the engine has a cover over the coil packs, it would be interesting to wire brush the other rusty plug and connect the air line to the thread end and put it under pressure in a water tank ?. On the other hand I might be talking from the Derriere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Just read through your saga Alan - Pleased it is all sorted and hope you have a smooth run today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I remember helping a guy on a test day at curborough who had a mis fire. Two of his plugs were up to the lead caps in water. Think it was a zetec.Its really bad luck that the corrosion was enough to make the plug snap. Hope its all running sweet.Do you think its a set of circumstances unique to your car or something others need to check regularly?Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 3, 2017 Member Share Posted June 3, 2017 Do you think its a set of circumstances unique to your car or something others need to check regularly?If I had a Zetec/ Sigma/ Duratec I'd immediately get the plugs out, have a look and refit them with appropriate stuff on the thread. Then I'd keep an eye out for moisture.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I have no problem with mine ! All plug recess are dry and clean . Always used NGK Plugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Following Alan's tale of woe, I've just checked the plug wells on my R400D. Superclean and superdry.The plugs are Ford TR6A-13 as supplied, but on the advice of BC and the Two Steves, I've just ordered a set of NGK BR7EFS from Opie Oils (excellent website plus a 10% club discount).JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 On my R400D, I've only recently found an optimum plug that will run well on track and around town and also start well in cooler temperatures below 10C. I found the NGK BR7EFS very difficult to start when cold. Plugs tried so far:NGK TR6AP-13, 1.3mm gap - original fitment, engine feels flat at high RPM on trackNGK TR6GP & TR6, 1.0mm gap - same as TR6AP-13NGK BR7EFS, 0.9mm gap - hard to start when cold and some low-load foulingChampion RS9YC, 1.2mm gap - generally good, but slight low-load fouling and occasional throttle needed to startAutolite AR103, 1.0mm gap - currently the best compromise for my car, with minimal low-load fouling, but start easily and no issues under high load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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