ChrisEarle Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 HiThe oil gauge on my 1.8 K series Supersport R has started moving down into the red zone (from a reading of 4) whenever I drive it hard. It always recovers back to 4 at idle or when ,I back off the loud pedal..Any thoughts? Latest advice is that foam in the sum might have disintegrated and blocked return?CheersChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadsport06 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Starting point would be the electric sender. Swap it to mechanical and get accurate readings. If you haven't changed the oil for a while then drop the sump and take out the foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Foam or not ... They are very sensitive to oil level. Check it is topped up to the max mark whilst hot and running. You can get this kind of behaviour if it is getting even a bit too low. Personally I run without the foam and have never seen any problems but I'm road only and don't track it. I just don't fancy risking the damage associated with it failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I find that when the electric sender goes, the gauge either reads low all the time, or the needle flicks around. Try disturbing and / or cleaning the contacts on the sender to see if that makes any difference. It's in a vulnerable place, and is prone to water and grot ingress.If that changes nothing then what you have described does point to something else, such as low oil or some sort of temporary blockage on the oil pickup. If the oil level is OK it's worth dropping the sump to have a look as previously suggested.When was the foam last changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham King Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Chris, all good advice above but I'd start off with Revilla's as it's the easiest to do. As Revilla says the k-series are very sensitive to oil level (as little as 1/4 litre can make a big difference). The oil pickup in a k-series is towards the front of the sump so hard acceleration will cause the oil to surge towards the back moving it away from the pickup hence the pressure drops off, lifting off allows it to settle again so the pressure comes back up. You can see the same effect when cornering hard. I fitted a mechanical oil gauge a long time ago, it's really straightforward and gives peace of mind that the readings you are seeing are correct. I also removed the sump foam and have seen no detrimental effects. I suspect your current problem is oil level being low but fitting the gauge and removing the foam are worthwhile changes as well in my book.Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Catcher Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I used to change the foam as recommended, but have run without foam for quite some time now, and fit Dave Andrews' (DVA) modified sump gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Foam ... No .... every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L7 FST Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Foam ... Yes .... every time you go on track.It really does reduce oil surge. Just change it annually and you'll be fine.I had big problems with surge on track with my VHPD when I removed the foam, following conventional advice. As soon as I put it back In, problem solved immediately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Which is odd as the foam is nailed to the underside of the block ..... Not in the oil ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I can't see how sump foam (in a K series at any rate) is going to do much for surge protection. The foam is above a metal plate, a largish sump gasket and way above the sump. The only way I can see the foam reducing surge is if the car was bouncing or airborne. I think the foam is there to reduce the amount of frothing caused by the crank and to filter out a few bubbles from oil that is dripping back to the sump. I would imagine that aerated oil will give low pressure readings.I have ditched the foam and did the gasket mod not because I had a problem with it but because a lot of others have and I did not want to join them. I also fitted a secondhand Hellier anti-surge baffle which while not great for all must do something positive. I do not track the car or cane it so this all seems to work well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L7 FST Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Yes I can confirm that without the foam I got serious oil starvation on left hand corners on track, and once I'd put it back in the problem went away completely. I had an Apollo in both instances, of course. The science may be difficult to explain, but the impact of the change was unequivocal, as confirmed by the (mechanical!) oil gauge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I am trying visualise how the foam could prevent surge. From memory the sump is about six inches wide and the oil on tickover an inch or so deep. For a low pressure reading surge the oil needs to move away from the pick-up. For this to only happen without foam it would need a very tall wave of oil to the side of the engine that lasted several seconds and when the foam is in place it slows the rate at which the wave can grow. This is just a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabea23 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 The foam issue seems to be full of varying advice, don't we still have contacts with the original Caterham Cars/Rover team who formulated the idea for the sump foam in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 22, 2017 Member Share Posted April 22, 2017 The foam issue seems to be full of varying advice...Yes. What I'd like to see is all the evidence and opinion in one place, with who is saying what and why. That document doesn't need to be agreed between those with different views; it would just make it easier for us to make up our own minds.JonathanPS: As I've advocated previously a facility for multiauthor wikis would be very helpful, but this issue is so important and so recurrent that we should do it as a one-off. Do we have a volunteer coordinator... or should we try a Google document? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 It's strange that no one ever came up with a metal mesh variant, for instance like the one you find in a cooker extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I had the same idea. I found a product that might be suitable, but as my foam is changed every year when the oil is changed, and there has never been a problem, I didn't pursue it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I seem to recall reading somewhere the foam acts to de-areate the oil - the oil frothed up by crank windage etc (shallow sump in a seven compared to a FWD Rover) hits it and it bursts the bubble so to speak . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian H Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I don't seem to suffer with oil surge [mech oil gauge] except for hard right hand cornering where pressure drops rapidly to 2bar. Not once that I have observed during acceleration. I don't have foam but do have a have an apollo tank. I tend to keep my oil level between max and 1/2 way down and read it the recommended way when engine is running and hot.I often wonder if the foam might be there to aide reading the oil level when the engine is hot and running? It might stop the oil splashing all over the place hence dip stick reading is more stable? It might also serve as a filter to help stop the bottom end of the engine sitting in any debris in the [unfiltered] oil when being started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEarle Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Thanks to all of you for the advice. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnockoff Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 If Oily says take the foam out, then that was good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin J Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I am glad I don't have to worry about this with the Sigma engine. Who wants crispy seaweed in their engine, not me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stone Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 As my SLR was built with it, I like to think there is a reason for that. I've owned my car for 10 years now. Replaced it for the second time this year. Only ever found the old foams to be in perfect condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnockoff Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer.Although I have never had the pleasure of doing business with Dave Andrews (Oily on here). I am sufficiently aware of his knowledge of K series engines to accept that if he says that the foam is devils spawn then so it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I've not had problems with mine either. Lots of conflicting information. Some folk experience problems, others don't. I seem to recall an earlier thread which gave a possible link between foam degradation and the type of oil used which concluded that using the recommended fully synthetic oil when using the foam was the best option. There was also a (much) earlier thread in which the original reasons for including the foam were given - by someone involved in the development IIRC - which were preventing oil surge and aeration caused by the shallow sump, but good luck finding that thread given the search issues on this forum.You pays your money......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now