Brake Discs and Pad advice please

[tomwood]

Hi All,

Been digging through the archives for advice but just want to double check before I commit to purchasing.

Currently I've got standard 2-pot caliper set-up all round with standard MC and pads as supplied in original kit I built the car with.

The archives suggest Mintex MGB533 1144 pads up front to be a worthwhile upgrade to avoid some of the brake imbalance which I definitely do have. These I have purchased already.

What I would like to know is the following:

1) Presumably its worth also replacing the disks at the same time to help bedding in?

2) Are the discs the same front and rear?

3) I'm tempted to leave the rears alone and upgrade to the 1144's up front. Is this wise? Ive seen talk in the archives of upgrading the rears slightly as well with some caterham parts items but the parts site has long since changed. Any ideas what, if anything, I should be putting in the rear these days to go well with the 1144's up front or shall I leave as standard?

4) is there much to be gained by moving away from the solid discs to ventilated/ cross drilled jobbies?

5) If I'm to get standard solid discs, where should I get them from? I've seen discussions of MOSS europe in the archives and I assume the standard Spitfire discs are the ones to get? Are these correct?

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/spitfire/brake-system/front-brakes/geomet-brake-discs-spitfire-46635.html

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

Tom

 

[SM25T]

Discs are the same front and rear. 232mm dia Spitfire. Available cheap on line.

[DJ.]

The uprated rear pads I used with the Mintex 1144 fronts are these ones:

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/calipers-pads-discs/668-brake-pads-rear-use-with-4-pot-front-brakes.html?search_query=brake+pads&results=4

When I changed my pads, the discs were barely worn, I just gave them a clean up with some wet and dry paper and then wiped them down with cellulose thinners. The discs are cheap, but replacing them is a more major job than just changing pads.

[Roadsport06]

It is worth changing the rear pads to the blue dots (pads for the updated fronts). This improves the balance. Not essential but changing fronts puts the balance to the fronts a little more than it needs to. Changing to the blue dots still means the fronts will lock up first and helps over all braking by the rears doing their bit

[john milner]

A few points. 

1144s are track only. Road use is of dubious legality and insurance.

They can screech at low speed.

They produce a lot of dust. One of my calipers seized I cannot say but dust ingress was a possible cause.

For plodders like me the benefits are unnoticeable.

 

[Roadsport06]

Just plodding after building the car it felt like the rear could overtake the front.

Can you point me to the relevant bit on M1144 not being legal on the road please.

[Jonathan Kay]

Legality discussed here in 2014.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Kay]

What do you want to use the car for?

1) Presumably its worth also replacing the disks at the same time to help bedding in?

I'd change the discs only if they were too thin or worn or not true. Am I completely out of date?

4) is there much to be gained by moving away from the solid discs to ventilated/ cross drilled jobbies?

Do you ever experience loss of braking performance after heavy use?

Jonathan

[Jonathan Kay]

... and then wiped them down with cellulose thinners.

I'm always surprised how readily others reach for proprietary brake cleaner for tasks other than brake cleaning. This made my day!

:-)

Jonathan

[Roadsport06]

Thanks JK, I remember that thread. It felt like we didn't reach a conclusion on legality of 1144 pads.

I'll read it later, some racing happening in F1

[Johnh]

If it's Triumph spit setup I'd contact rimmer brothers and save some money.. they have a good online catalogue .

[tomwood]

Thanks for all the comments.

D.J - Are those that you've linked to the same 'blue dot' ones being referred to by Roadsport06? If so, I will get those as well for the rear in that case.

Car has only done 2500 miles so strongly suspect that the rear discs will barely look used and the fronts not much more so. Based on comments I shall try and use what I have provided they look in reasonable health when I take the wheels off.

JK - I've been happy with the performance on the track thus far. My question was slightly leading. My suspicion is that grooved/drilled/vented would be a waste of money so your comments tend to suggest that's the case.

Slightly ironic if the Mintex pads are of dubious legality given I'm only really doing it to avoid a rear overtaking the front type situation but if thats the case then I guess thats the case. If not Mintex 1144's with the blue dot rears, what other proven, legal combinations are there?

[BigCol]

Tom

I seem to recall our builds were contemporaneous.  

My car failed its IVA due to brake imbalance - the rears locked-up ahead of the fronts (ie the issue you sound to have).  The solution for my retest was for Caterham to supply 1144 pads for the front of my car.

I have a feeling (would have to check paperwork to confirm) that they swapped them back to normal pads at the 1000 mile service - maybe due to legality issues...

So, as above, 1144s on the front could be your solution but it could also be problematic...

[DJ.]

I don't know what the compound iscalled, but I was advised to buy "the rear pads recommended by Caterham for use with the front big brake conversion".

I know quite a few people who run their cars with standard rear pads and Mintex 1144 on the front and they are happy. However, I fitted the Mintex front pads with the upgraded rears and the fronts still lock first.

From new with the standard pads, I wasn't impressed with the brakes on my Seven. There was a rear bias and they lacked power. With the new pads I found the brakes much better. It is true, the Mintex pads have "not for road use" on the box, but the car is so much safer and enjoyable with them (road or track) there is no way i'd want to swap back.

Duncan

[tomwood]

Thanks Duncan, I agree which is why I'd like  sort the problem out. Thanks for your update. I will purchase the upgraded rears as well and switch them both out.

Tom

[tomwood]

BigCol - yes, correct. Mine too failed on brake imbalance on first attempt as well although in my case it wasn't a front to rear issue but rather a faulty calliper which was then replaced before a retest.

[john milner]

If a manufacturer states that a set pads are for track use only then a court or insurance company would take a dim view of this in the event of a handling/braking incident.

Using pads that are road approved but do not meet original manufacturers specifications may also fall foul of the same issues. For example EBC Greenstuff are road approved and may be better than OEM but therefore exceed the specification for a Triumph Spitfire caliper.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/type-approval-for-ca.asp

My guess is that 1144s are not road approved due to the bedding in process and the amount of dust they create. They are probably better but being better means they are not OEM replacements.

The uprated rear pads may have a similar issue unless Caterham/Ford have had them approved.