R300 K Imobiliser

[Piers300]

I have a 2004 R300 with the factory fitted immobilizer. It is called a "Toad".  I have been having intermittent starting issues for quite some time and this afternoon, it will not start. (see separate R300 Starting issues).

It cranks well but it does not fire, so I replaced (all new) the rotor arm, cap and main HT lead and still dead. I then thought I would check to see if the coil is getting 12 volts when cranking and it looks like it is not, so next I looked at the immobilizer.

When turned off, the red led flashes slowly. When you turn the key, the red led flashes quickly and goes out. The gear change led's also flash. The small manual that came with the car says the red led should light when cranking but it does not and this may be preventing the coil getting the 12 Volts.  You also have to waggle the dongle on the key, but this still does nothing. I have looked and there is a loop around the key assembly.

Could someone advise what I should be seeing. It is very frustrating as this has been going on since the IoW Blat of 2015 and it still keeps happening.

I will give it one more try and then it will have to go to a professional. 

Thanks

Piers

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I then thought I would check to see if the coil is getting 12 volts when cranking and it looks like it is not, so next I looked at the immobilizer.

Was that measured at the coil? What's the battery voltage at rest and while cranking?

Jonathan

[Piers300]

I checked the at rest voltage and it was 12.5 V on the battery. I did not do the cranking voltage and will look at that tomorrow. The battery is about six years old but is connected to a conditioner all the time in the garage and it cranks well.

I tried to measure the voltage at the connector having removed it from the coil and the pins are very small and on your own, not easy to do. It did look like there was 2 Volts there, but I was expecting 12 V at the male connector that connects into the coil. I'll try this again tomorrow with some help.

I think the immobilizer LED's are not flashing as they should and there may be a problem there.

This issue was intermittent, but now it is full on !.

Thanks for help

Piers

[Piers300]

Just checked and cranking voltage is 10 volts. Does this signify that one cell has failed ?

 

Piers

[Jonathan Kay]

I'd like to see at least 10.5V during cranking. It's probably best to concentrate on the firing problem and then get back to the condition of the battery.

Firing:
Can you get another battery or jump to another vehicle? If the latter do this with the engine running at 3,000rpm. Repeat the attempt to start: what's the minimum voltage seen during cranking and does it now fire?

Jonathan

PS: The surprising bit is that some 7s will crank happily while the battery voltage has dropped so low that the ECU or similar won't work. So our experiences from other cars can be misleading.

PPS: Is it the sort of battery that you can top up? If so check the levels.

[Piers300]

It is a Banner 30 Ah.  Part number 530 o34  024.  Standard battery for the K series I think.

 

Piers

[Piers300]

The level on two of the cells was a little bit low so I have topped up and are now charging the battery.

 

Piers

[Piers300]

When I went away on holiday I put the keys away. I have two sets and when I came back I picked up the master key that has the tag. When I turn the key, the LED flashed quickly a number of times and the went out. Have I done something stupid to the Toad system , hence the car not starting. The fact this has been an on going saga for two years makes me think not, but I am looking into all possible reasons why it won't start

 

Piers

[Piers300]

Charged the battery with a large 10  amp unit and it still will not start.

it cranks really well but obviously has no spark, so something is stopping it or there is  a bad connection.

 

Piers

[Jonathan Kay]

Your diagnostic strategy is still relying on there being enough oomph in that battery. What was the battery voltage while cranking after topping up and charging?

Any chance of jumping it? That could save you a lot of time.

Jonathan

PS: Cleaning and inspecting all the relevant connections is a good idea. But if there isn't enough oomph at the battery there probably won't be anywhere else.

[Expat]

Do a search for - Duratec won't start - .and read all about it. I never found a definite cause of the problem, which sounds just like yours, but I suspect that cleaning the earth points, especially near the ECU, cured (?) it. In any case it seems to have gone away, but one can never tell with an intermittent non starter!

Good luck.

[Piers300]

I don't have a spark plug tool to remove a spark plug on the K series, so testing for a spark was not easy. Today I borrowed a plug and low and behold, I have a spark. So it must be no fuel getting to the engine, which could be the Toad immobiliser or the fuel pump.

So I am going to check the connection at the fuel pump next.  Being very deaf (hearing aids worn all the time) I am finding it difficult to hear if the pump is working.

What are the next steps ?

Thanks in advance

Piers

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I'd still like to be sure you've got enough voltage. Could also be a timing problem (including wrong connection of HT leads, but your history doesn't sound like that).

At the fuel pump check you've got ≥12V across the terminals with the ignition on. Get someone else to come and listen to the pump or stick a hand on it and see if it's vibrating?

You could check for fuel deficiency by giving it a squirt of ether and seeing if it fires.

Presumably there's a way of disconnecting the fuel feed and seeing if it gushes out. But I don't know where to do that.

Jonathan

[Piers300]

I have just tried to checked to see if the pump is getting 12 V when cranking. Due to the pin size on the connector, it is difficult to do it by myself with the meter I have.  I will get someone to crank it while I measure later this evening.

I also did some tests on the Toad, by taking the dongle off the key ring and there is a definite click and the LED goes out when the dongle is put near the loop, so it looks like the Toad is working.

This leaves the fuel pump. How easy is it to change the pump (R 300K  2004). It has to be tank out, as space is very limited. I assume the pump comes with a new gasket etc.

Thanks Jonathan for advice - I am getting there slowly.

 

Piers