Type 9 stuck

[john milner]

After about 15 miles today I found myself stuck in neutral at a T junction. I tried all the gears several times with no success until finally I got it into reverse. I was then stuck in reverse. I turned the engine off and still couldn't get it out of reverse. I then found the car wouldn't start due to the FIA switch needing a wiggle. Once the car started I was able to get the car out of gear and from then on gear changes worked as normal. I clocked up about another 20 miles with a couple of stops en route and no further issues. The clutch seemed to operate correctly at all times.

The engine is a 2003 VVC with a Type 9 gearbox and hydraulic clutch. Gear box oil was checked and topped up about a month ago and the clutch fluid was changed a couple of weeks ago.

Any ideas on what the gear problem is? I think the electrical problem must be a coincidence.

[Jonathan Kay]

Clutch OK and it worked normally after the problem... could that be a problem with the selector? 

There are reports of stiffness caused by insufficient lubrication, such as this.

I'd be off to a specialist. Hope it's something cheap.

Jonathan

[john milner]

It will probably end up with family member who is a general car mechanic rather than a specialist but I would like at least to point him in the right direction if there is something relatively common going on.

The car has done over 61,000 miles so if there is something that can dry out it probably has done. When it played up it was more than a bit stiff it was stuck where it was.

[SM25T]

I would certainly try lubricating the base of the gear lever where it enters the top of the gearbox. From my personal experience of poor hydraulic clutch slave cylinder on the VVC engine .... I just unbolted the whole hydraulic system and simply fitted a cable instead. Took all of 15 minutes. So much nicer to operate.

[john milner]

I read your advice on squirting ACF50 between gaiter and stick and will give it go. As it is working at the moment it may take a while to find out if a squirt cures it.

The hydraulic clutch operation is normally not a problem for me but I have carried a cable in case of failure since buying the car.

[john milner]

I have thought a bit more about this and I occasionally get what I think are early symptoms of CRB failure. Squealing and a judder through the clutch pedal. Although it can be weeks between each time it happens so I have not taken it too seriously but I am now wondering if the stuck lever could be part of the same problem. When it was stuck in reverse the clutch seemed to operate correctly as I was able to control the car correctly and without a squeal or judder. I would have thought a failing CRB would have caused squeal and uncontrollable motion in addition to gear change problems.

[Wrightpayne]

The spigot bearing in the end of the crank in which the gearbox input shaft locates can also fail - not sure what the symptoms are though.

Ian

[Paul Deslandes]

sticking in reverse as well as forward gears would suggest linkage rather than gear train, e.g. broken blocker bar spring etc. which can lock the gears  It doesn't sound like clutch as you would not be able to control the car as you describe, and I suspect the crb noise is coincidental.

You could remove the gear lever and see if it's free to move in its housing, and check the saddle is in place and intact.

Beyond that, it's inside the box to check the selector rod and components.

One other long shot that's just occurred to me; if the reversing light switch, which is screwed into the side or the extension close to the gear lever, has done something odd, it's just conceivable that it could jamb the change

Paul

[john milner]

Tried the squirt of lubricant idea and the gear change is a little smoother. I doubt this has fixed anything just made things work a bit better.

As I am loathe to remove the tunnel top unless I have to I looked inside the pedalbox instead. The rod into the master was very loose so I pulled off the rubber shroud and found a circlip and washer running free on the rod. I refitted the circlip in the master and adjusted the linkage to get rid of slack. Not tested yet.

[john milner]

I also raised the clutch pedal position but found the higher position much too high. In the lower position my leg gently brushes the steering wheel but in the higher position my leg interferes with steering.

After about 2 miles while changing gear I found myself stuck in neutral and had to pull over. I found that the master cylinder rod was sloppy and too far out (only now do I think that this could due to a stuck piston). Adjusted the rod tighter and could not move as I had over done it and permanently engaged the clutch. Backed off the rod and then drove about 5 miles with no problems. The symptoms I had with the sloppy rod were very similar to what I had in my original post. I am now thinking that I may have a master cylinder that is sticking and leaking internally. Basically my theory is that sometimes it gets stuck in but while stuck is not applying any pressure to the slave. I suppose my next step will be to at least try cable as as that will prove if the problem is hydraulic or not.

[SM25T]

Good plan. You probably won't want to change back. So easy to fit in place of the hydraulics.

[john milner]

I'm having big problems getting the threaded cable end through the yellow bush. Is there a knack to it or is there more to it than just giving it a push?

[john milner]

To clarify when pushing the thread through it goes in the yellow bush over 3/4 of the way. I tried from the wrong way (inside to outside) and it went less than a 1/4 into the bush. There must be something in the bush moulding that restricts the hole size. The cable end goes all the way through with no problem so the restriction must be slight and short. I have tried turning the thread of the cable with a spanner to cut a thread through the bush but so far no luck.

Should I be trying to get the bush out and fitting it over the cable thread before fitting the cable or binning the bush altogether?

[Mark Durrant]

Remove the plastic bush and fettle with a round file until the cable slides in smoothly. Refit the bush then slide in the cable. If you have some gearbox oil or similar use this to lube the inner cable.

[john milner]

Thanks. Does the bush come out using a screwdriver as a lever?

I lubed the cable by dripping a 3 in 1 type oil in one end until it started to drip from the other. Then left it for half hour with both ends up to give the middle section a chance to absorb as much as possible. Finally applied grease at both ends and worked as much as I could into the cable.

[Mark Durrant]

The bush is a push fit so should slide out just be careful not to damage it, alternately depending on access fettle in situ but cover the opening in the bellhousing.

[SM25T]

My yellow bush was a really loose fit. Just fell out ... and outer cable slid through easily.

[john milner]

Mine is very tight and will at least need WD40 to shift it but I think an in situ fettle is more likely.

[john milner]

Got it done eventually. Required WD40, screwdriver and long handled utility pliers to get it out. The bush did not need fettling but is only just big enough to go over the thread. Cleaned it up & greased put the bush on the thread and had a lot of trouble getting it all through the bell housing hole but using the pliers to press it in worked. What I think is happening is the hole in the ali is imperfect and deforming the bush so if anything it is the metal that needs fettling.

I now need to adjust correctly as it is feeling very weird at the moment as it bites with the pedal quite high and I am used to to it biting near the floor. The pedal action is much stiffer which may be further confirmation that I had a knackered master cylinder as I thought hydraulic was meant to be stiff. My knee is also hitting the steering wheel so I may need to sort that as well.

[SM25T]

Adjusting the cable will lower the bite point and thus move your leg away from the wheel too.

[john milner]

I have lowered it so the pedal is the same height as the brake and driven for about 15 miles. I probably need to go a bit lower but the action is taking a bit of getting used to so I am going to leave it as is for a few days and see if it is me or the pedal that needs to adapt. I've got a few hundred miles to cover this weekend so I will know one way or the other.

If I keep the cable I will need to look into a pedal stop as I am used to moving my foot down a lot further.

[john milner]

 I was not happy with cable as I found the action to be a bit on-off and not a smooth transition also when a cable fails it is unusable whereas hydraulic plays up but works. A master cylinder refurb kit cost me £12.33 from Demon Tweeks which is a lot less than another spare cable or a new m/c. I have done a couple of hundred miles with it but there is a chance it will fail. If it does I will probably buy a new m/c.

[SM25T]

Strange ..... I found a cable so much nicer to use. Very smooth and controlled. Each to their own.

[john milner]

"Each to their own" is probably the best way to describe it as I do seem to be in a minority. I should add that the bulk of my mileage is in the 7 and next is in an automatic so that may be affecting my feel for a clutch. The biggest thing for me was what happens if a cable fails as changing a cable by the roadside in the dark, rain etc. would be a pain.

[ECR]

But a lot easier than changing a failed hydraulic clutch by the roadside in the dark, rain ........