Location for oil temp sensor in K rover, wet sum, No apollo

[ScottR400D]

It's OK to use PTFE tape as long as you're not relying on the contact of the sensor with the housing to ground the sensor. If you are the tape can stop it earthing. Tape shouldn't be necessary on a tapered thread. 

[revilla]

Yes, that's a very good point.

[The_ASH]

An Apollo kit is around the £200 mark new but they do pop up from time to time when people go dry sumped, a post in the Wanted section might be the best plan if you go that route.

[john milner]

Is there a favoured place to locate an indicator switch to control the temperature gauge? I am thinking of between the temperature and pressure gauges at the same height as the real indicator switch. Left for water, right for oil.

[Jonathan Kay]

interesting ergonomic question. Are you planning to use any labelling?

Jonathan

[revilla]

@John Milner: That's exactly what I did. Looks good and works for me.

[john milner]

Great minds think alike.

Labels will be as Caterham standards. The oil pressure gauge being on the right should help make it's operation intuitive.

[Jonathan Kay]

You could also have a light on for the unusual condition.

How do people use the switch... nearly always on Water and a quick occasional look at Oil? Would spring-loading to the normal condition ± delay on the display be helpful?

Pointing to something else to do with oil is good, labels can be good... but remember the single most famous example of poor design.

Jonathan

[john milner]

Switch works well. As reported elsewhere it takes 15-20 minutes for the oil to reach the same temperature as the coolant. I have yet to take it on a hot day, long run but at the moment it looks as though on a leisurely drive on rural A/B roads the two temperatures are pretty much equal but a 5 mile dual carriageway legal limit run adds 5-10C to the oil.

The plug on the oil filter housing was quite hard to undo and needed a 3/16" allen key. I only have a fairly short key in this size so had to use a deep socket as an extension handle. I tried doing it without removing the alternator but I found that it is almost impossible. Two alternator bolts to remove and one on the block to loosen. The alternator cables can be left connected (DISCONNECT BATTERY FIRST). Sealed thread with a light smearing of Loctite's version of blue Hylomar.

I'm happy with the switch as it is but as an alternative I would consider something similar to a headlamp flasher switch. I don't know what contacts are available on flasher switches but some might prefer to be able to momentarily check on the oil without the risk of forgetting to switch back to water.

The picture is of the removed plug and temperature sensor. The Caterham website says a new version will be supplied but I was sent the old type.

[tuvok4711]

I'd like to come back to the original question of how to fit the aditional sensor, please: 

As an alternative to revillas proposal (see post #3), what does the community think about using a T-shaped adaptor (e.g. this one: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/oil-pressure-gauge-t-piece-1-8npt-tp-1-8npt), put it in front of the electrical oil pressure sensor and then fitting the temperature sensor facing upwards (because facing downward would probably be too vulnerable with ground clearance...).

Do you think this a good idea and would there be enough space because of the mounting of the alternator could be in the way?

[revilla]

Not quite sure what you mean, but if you're talking about running a pipe from the oil filter housing to a remote pressure sender and putting the temperature sender somewhere in that, I'm afraid it's a non-starter. There's no oil flow such a pipe, the oil will be permanently cold. It needs to be directly in the circulating oil to read anything sensible at all.

[tuvok4711]

no, not using a pipe. Idea was to put the T-shaped adapter directly in the horizontally facing threat of the oil filter housing and then put the electrical pressure sensor (or mechanical one) into that adapter up front facing horizontally and the temperature sensor facing vertically upwards (sorry for my English; I am not a native speaker)

But, yes, I understand your point about there being no oil flow and therefore probably temp readings will be too low

 

[revilla]

No that's still not going to work.

You need the tip of the temperature sensor to be directly in the flowing oil somewhere. If it's off on a side-spur, even a short T-piece, there won't be any flow and the oil will run a lot cooler than the bulk of the circulating flow.

[tuvok4711]

I understand; sounds absolutely reasonable. I will discard the idea (too bad though; would have made the installation much easier...)

Thanks, revilla!

[revilla]

Also ... the port on the filter housing points across and downwards. I'd really want to minimise the length of anything attached to it as it will be very vulnerable to road damage, even aligning the sensors as you have suggested. Knocking the sensor off on the road could be disastrous as the engine would pump all of the oil out of the resulting hole very quickly (it's just downstream of the pump at full pressure).

[revilla]

would have made the installation much easier...

Why do you think this would be much easier than the suggestion I made in #3? That should just be a case of unscrewing a small hex plug and screwing the ensor into the hole. I've done it on at least 20 engines to date without issues. 

[tuvok4711]

Fair question. Answer: Because in fact I did try yesterday to do it like you described and could not do it (obviously due my incompetence and not your instructions ;-)

I have to add that I did not disassemble the alternator altogether but just unscrewed the two screws facing to the front and then tilted that mounting bar thing. I hoped this would open up enough space but it didnt. I do have small hands but not small enough for that kind of work in a S3-chassis.

So either I will try again with disassembling the alternator or just unscrew the complete oil filter housing altogether (access to these 4 inbus-screws seems easier than access to the screw in the port of the housing). I am thinking that this can possibly be done without draining the oil as the oil-pan is still lower than the oil filter housing)

Further ideas very welcome of course!

[revilla]

Ah yes, I understand. I have the luxury that most of the engines I'm working on are on a bench, and my own car is an SV which gives more working spare.

One word of warning; the gasket between the oil filter housing and the block tends to bake very hard with age, and stick very strongly to the block. If you remove the oil filter housing, the gasket will inevitably require changing, which means you will need to will need to remove the old gasket from the block. It can be a devil of a job to get it off, especially with the access you have from underneath the car. With an old block I'm stripping for rebuild, I've often had to resort to a hard plastic chisel and a hammer to chip it out in bits, then clean up with wet and dry paper. I did once remove this in situ on my own car and it took forever lying on my back to clean it all up. And you'll want to make sure that none of the debris or abrasive goes into the oil, so will need to plug the oilways with rag and work around them.

I think I would be inclined to remove the alternator rather than the oil filter housing for access with the engine still in the car, if that gives you enough access. It will end up a much smaller job in the end.

[tuvok4711]

cheers, super advice! I did think of a new gasket in advance (which I recently received) but was not aware of the old gasket coming off so difficult. In that case, I will have another look at removing the alternator and by that maybe it might even be possible to reach to the housing from above. Always easier than lying on your back with approx 20cm of space above your body ;-)

[Adam Godfrey]

The Apollo kit has gone up a fair bit, now over £400...

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/oil-system/40-oil-air-separator-kit-rover-rhd-not-r500.html