Griff Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Recently aquired my VHPD Caterham with dry sump etc and need some advice on oil. It currently uses 15W-50 Mobil 1 and I've some left, but also have two unopened cans of 0W-40 Mobil 1. Latter was fine on my old TVR, but not sure for the Catherham. Also been told to keep the oil level to 11" in the system when the engine's been warmed through and just turned off, but the Caterham book I have says 300mm. I don't want to waste this stuff in the catch tank by overfilling, so any suggestions and comments appreciated. Griff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 The only true way to find out how much it needs is to slightly overfill it until only a bit is found in the catch tank. Seems that each dry sumped Caterham needs slightly different amounts which may depend on how you drain the system each time. I remove the blue plate on the bottom of the bell/tank housing, the oil filter and the feeder pipe from the bottom of the bell/tank housing to the sump pan at the sump pan end. That results in my using a complete 4 litre container of Mobil 1 each refill and losing just a whiff into the catch tank. I use the 15W-50 because: 1.I believe that I don't need ultra cold protection as I tend not to use it much (at all) during the Winter 2. I am careful about warming it up 3. The engine runs hard and hot I don't know whether this is a flawed arguement (probably) but I think you'll find 0W-40 is still top quality oil and won't hurt your engine. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I talked to the powertrian guy at Rover yesterday who was responsible for the oil signoff on the K-series engine, ref another oily question on techtalk. I discussed with him the apparent lack of guidance on specification from Caterham, preferring to just to recommend a brand (VW did this and were succesfully taken to court and heavily fined 18 months ago - A specification should at least be provided). He told me that various quality levels and grades are signed off on the k series. I discussed with him what would be a reasonably simple recomendation and we settled on ACEA A3 5W-40. A 0W-40 would also be fine. He actually said that a 50 grade was possibly too thick (base engine is actually signed off on 5W-30). I have seen problems here at Ford on hydraulic lash adjusters with too thick an oil so I could understand his concern. You have the benefit of your experience on the 15W-50, fair enough, but you'll be fine on the 0W-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Thanks for the feedback. That seems to be two-nil in favour of 0W-40. Suits me just fine as I buy this in France for about EUR35 for 4 litres which is a lot less than over here. How often should you be changing oil & filter on these engines considering pretty low road use and about one track day a month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 My personal opinion is that you have a 6 to 8 grand engine verses a 40 quid (max) oil and filter change. Therefore I change mine every 2 to 3000 road miles (if you average out the oil changes I've performed over the 16,000 miles I've done in the car) or after EVERY track day. Others think this is bit overkill. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 V7, Looking at your advice for draining the oil system, the places you mention would drain the oil tank and the feed to the oil pump. Nothing wrong with that. I find I also get a good litre or so out, by removing the pipe leading from back of the sump up to the scavenge pump, at the sump end. This allows oil in the engine at the time of shut down to percolate to the sump and then be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Griff 8 1/2 inches in old money, Minister told me 9 1/2 but all it does is pump and 1" out into the catchtank, when measuring make sure you get past all the castings etc to the bottom of the tank. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Mark, That's a big difference between 8.1/2" and 11". Is there a difference in the dry sump systems that could account for this? I'm told mine is the R500 design, but I don't know how to tell if this is correct. How would I know for sure I've reached the bottom of the castings? Can anyone give me a dimension from the top filler to the very bottom so I can be sure I'm measuring oil depth from the right place? Thanks, Griff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhill Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I do the same as Nick, and have to put at least 5 litres of fresh oil in. General tips are to fill the new oil filter with fresh oil before putting it on, and to crank the engine with the immobiliser activated to get pressure up before starting. I also chuck some of the oil in the top through the cam cover for good measure. Griff, Accepted practice is to keep adding it until is comes out into the catch tank. Does your DS tank have a swirl tower? If so it should have a dip stick. Jon Edited by - jonhill on 7 Feb 2003 19:24:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Griff I don't think there's any difference between mine and an R500 system? it's a std Caterham bellhousing dry sump system, I'll measure mine tomorrow from top to bottom, I ran mine all day today on track with 8.5" with no problems and a very small amount ended up in the catch tank Jon I've got a swirl tower but no dipstick ☹️ .......oh for a dipstick Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 9.5" is the Caterham recommended for the R500. But the DS tank is the same (provided you haven't got a very early VHPD DS without the conning tower). Make sure you get the dipstick down to the bottom of the tank past the obstructions in the casting. I am not sure about Nig's proposition that they are all different. I reckon it's more to do with the 'measurers' as its a wretchedly hard thing to measure with any accuracy. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Graham Remember this http://www.collinsclan.co.uk/hullavington070203/source/47.html new owner was putting it through it's paces today Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 wow, that's got me more emotional than I expected, looks fabulous! How did Gregg get on?? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 BTW is it your pic Mark? Do you have a higher res version of it? Tks Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Graham he was going well, he's still getting used to the car though Was my pic and yes I have a hi-res, drop me a mail ot mark@collinsclan.co.uk and I'll e-mail it to you Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 tks Mark, yhm Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Graham pic sent Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenDriver Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I thought some of these looked familiar. Then I realised that I was there. 😬 Clamshells and proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 Jon, Mark, I'll have to take a picture of my swirl tower and post it tomorrow. Maybe you can tell me whether or not I should have a dipstick? Next problem is noise - went to Castle Combe today just to get the car checked before wasting money bening banned from a track day. Managed a mere 104dB 😳 Mike (Griff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Nick & Jon Rather than go to all the trouble of removing the scavenge pickup pipe to drain the remaining oil from the sump I find its much easier to remove the scavenge pump drive belt and wind the pump round by hand with one finger in one of the large holes in the pulley. This effectively removes all the oil from the sump usually about 3/4 L. Edited by - Rob walker on 9 Feb 2003 20:11:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren f Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the swirl tower / bellhousing oil tank find its own level by virtue of spitting the excess into the catch-tank 🤔. In effect measuring is irrelevent due to the fact it finds its own level any way? (Assuming of course you put enough oil in to start with, which is a case of recording how much you put in, less the amount that gets 'spat' out 😳). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 that is so, but if you are on track and both using oil and venting it to a catch tank, how do you know when to put more in unless you measure it? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren f Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Ahhhhh yes - fair comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Nick Green wrote:I find I also get a good litre or so out, by removing the pipe leading from back of the sump up to the scavenge pump, at the sump end. This allows oil in the engine at the time of shut down to percolate to the sump and then be removed.Rob Walker wrote:Rather than go to all the trouble of removing the scavenge pickup pipe to drain the remaining oil from the sump I find its much easier to remove the scavenge pump drive belt and wind the pump round by hand with one finger in one of the large holes in the pulley. This effectively removes all the oil from the sump usually about 3/4 L.This is exactly what I do. Gridgway wrote:I am not sure about Nig's proposition that they are all different. I reckon it's more to do with the 'measurers' as its a wretchedly hard thing to measure with any accuracy.I previously wrote:Seems that each dry sumped Caterham needs slightly different amounts which may depend on how you drain the system each timeWhat I meant was that the amount of oil you need to refill the engine depends on how much you took out to begin with... whech depends on your technique for draining in the first place. The dipstick is inside the conning tower. There are 2 "lids" (can't think of a better word) which unscrew. The smaller top one is the dipstick. The larger lower one opens the refill hole. If the d/s system was fitted from new then you won't have the normal dipstick. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 quick note that the dipstick method I was talking about is for a seperate dipstick that goes to the bottom of the tank and measures from the bottom. Not the pathetic dipstick that is attached to the top "lid" (using Nig's terminology) and which doesn't seem capable of actually measuring anything and fortunately usually detaches itself automatically so it can be discarded! Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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