Fred68 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hi Guys, Saturday I'm going to have a look on a Cat HPC from 1995 with De Dion to buy it (perhaps). It would be for track use mostly. 1. Someone told me that the chassis before 1996 aren't that good for track use, is that rigth? 2. How light can the car be? The guy told me 520kg, it seams very light to me with this motor, isn't it? 3. It has no dry sump on it and the guy already broke two motors on it , so the dry sump seams to be needed, what do you think about this? From where could I find that? New or Used dry sump? Cheers, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Wide track is favourable but not essential. As are big brakes at least up front. 520 is about right if it is stripped out / has some trick bits like ali rad, lighter seats. A road spec HPC with full weather gear and some tools/fire ext/normal batt/ road wheels and tyres weighs about 600kg. Dry Sump yes if sticky tyres. You would be ok with 021's, I was at Cadwell but not at Mallory or the Ring I reckon. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hi, try PACE ( on www ) for VX 3 stage dry sump kit. They are very helpful and get back to you promptly Cost is c. 750 GBP 520 seems a bit optimistic if Arnies c. 510 ish given all the carbon in that car and trick bits. Chassis is very different from pre 96 cars ( mine is being modded by Arch at present and there are plenty of differences ) Chassis at the front has additional bracing and is stiffer. Pick up point for damper is higher - you may not be able to get Len's push rod suspension on as part of future upgrades(?) Rear will be different as well, for example Watts linkage if you want one fitted would be different lengths Steve have mentioned wide track Apologies, not too well up on std spec HPC for 95, but should it not have a dry sump in the bellhousing ? Anthony VX the real way sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Thanks Steve and Anthony, With the same weels, tyres without wind screen and on the same track what would be quicker then: a 2002 Roadsport 1.8VVC 6 speed LSD (light 520kg) or a 1995 HPC (520-540kg) with big brakes 5 speed LSD? In general terms how people do compare the 1.8VVC 160-165HP in the new specs to the VX 2L? Does the VX 2L have weak points that I have to be aware of if I wants to track it? Cheers, Frederic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 In my experience the VX will out pace a VVC on track, esp short circuits where grunt/flexiblity in torque is needed. Given both being equally well set up. The VVC is I have heard more delicate on track. The VX is renowned for it VX its bullet proofness. Touches wood of table. The weights you suggest are more normal for club cars. There is no reason why you should not take the car you are thinking of put the VX race series suspension on it, perhaps Throttle bodies / big brakes and go and knock 7 bells out of some lesser K's / XF's. Let us know what you do. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Thanks Steve, Per telephone the actual owner of the HPC Cat told me that his car has been upgrated to big brakes, he is using YOKOS A038R, it has a 5 gear gearbox with LSD. Was the LSD standard in 1995? You told me that upgradind to VX race series suspension would be good for track use, what brand of dampers and kind of springs are those? cheers, Frederic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Not sure on the narrow track on Dampers. I have wide track and use Bilstein M0 dampers but plan to go to M1 spec soon. LSD was not standard. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Thanks Steve, Saturday is close now 😬 I can't wait! fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I thought the LSD was standard on the HPC ..........I looked into it because my HPC (94) doesn't have one. The reasoning apparently was that it was a press car & therefore the LSD was not fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 I will ask the guy tomorrow is that was an option or not...will see F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 LSD would have been standard on race cars but not road I think. My 1997 HC doesn't have one. Not having one may well have kept me out of the barriers on my learning curve. I have seen serveral get on the power too early and spear off. Fred, On the test drive find a long up hill derestricted slip road. Boot it and enjoy the wave of torque. That was what sold the VX to me My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 I'm already in the car...in my dreams every night 😬. i just hoppe that the guy is still all right for me seing the car tomorrow. We planed that 1.5 week ago and the guy is very busy... But definitely YES I will try what you said. Cheers Frederic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian balson Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 LSD's - I thought they were std on the HPC model, my 93 Road going HPC has one. Rgd Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 my 1992 had one, in standand ckd package. but i think they made it an option on later cars.a friends aniversary vx does'nt have one. kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 LSD was std on HPC until they ran out of engines. Old chassis works better than the post 96 chassis on cars with heavier engines. Wide track is essential if you want it to turn in as well as a K-series. A VX only needs dry sump if you are going to turn in tight fast left had corners a lot - this is when iot gives oil surge. IMO the Caterham dry sup is of little use on any engine revving to over 8250rpm because of the reliance on the std VX pressure pump. Ants comments on the pace slim jim pump are 100%, but use the Caterham pan - its better suited to the rwd configuration than the pace item which is universal. Weight - if the engine is std (i,e no lightweight internals etc) there is no way this car weighs 520kgs. I would suggest 550kgs is a more likely figure - weight however is less critical than it sounds. What is important is balance. that can be adjusted. Watts link is completely unnecessary on a VX and just adds weight. The cars tendency to rear wheel steer on roll is actually a good thing again on a car with a heavier engine. I would be wary of this car if it has had two engine failures if the engines are std. This does not correlate to the norm. Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke back @ 512k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 How can you explain that Old chassis works better than the post 96 chassis on cars with heavier engines. At Caterham they claim that the post 96 would be 30 % stiffer... What is the difference between these chassis? I can't see the car today, the guy said perhaps tomorrow...I hate him already. The only knew thing I know about the car is that it has no wide track on it. What is "Watts links", is it the same as LSD? I agree that 520kg seems very light and I doubt it and also I know from different sources that he broke two motors but he mentioned only one to me... But I'm still looking for a Cat, I need one! Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 An '89 chassis is stiffest of all. You tend to get facts on Blatchat, not marketing hype! Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke back @ 512k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Arnie "LSD was std on HPC until they ran out of engines." How so? Surely this would be until they ran out of LSD's 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 I could see the car today, it's just great! It's an old (95) 2l cup car, so it has no windscreen, no wipers, no heating, 4pot braked front, LSD with oil cooler, Motor oil cooler, Aluminium radiator, small roll cage. With the 2l carburator engine from Vauxhall on it, with lateral exhaust pipe, in great shape. I love the car!!!! The only thing that I didn't like are the "delta mics" (with YOKOs A038R 195/50/15) alloys: the alloys aren't standard, right? I will very probably buy it, it's so great! I'm a bit worried about everyday costs on it compared to my Elise MK1 120ps... Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Mr Locust, They HPC or VX injection (whatever you wish to call it) was formally discontinued in around '95/'96 when Caterham ran out of "Pre-93" cat exempt engines. The last VX cars were fitted with refurb carburettor VX engines and as such also did not have an LSD as std. Make sense now?? Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke back @ 512k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Yes Sir makes sense but the story of this one is different, it was upgraded to the carburators and it has now a DTA engine management system with tuned engine but the guy just told me it has more than 180HP... Great Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Slow down Fred! If this guy is being economical with the truth about things like engine blow ups then he sounds slightly dodgy. If someone lies to you about one thing with a car then they are more than likely to lie to you about other bits and pieces! ☹️ What has he had done to the engine then? VX's tend to be fairly strong up to about 200 bhp I thought even on track. Above that a Dry Sump is recommended (This is what I remember hearing and is not gospel). One thing is for certain he has been thrashing the arse of the car to break two engines! DOn't treat this like it is the only one out there. There are plenty of VX's around and you still get really nice ones about! Try a K-Series car as well for comparison as it is very much a personal thing as to which you go for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 To be totaly fair here in france we have not so many Cat around, so I would love a K series superligtht for example but it's not homologated her. the Cat that you find are K series 1.6l, but anyway Cats are difficult to find and expensive here. So if there is one in the area you just jump on it. So that's not that I'm crazy about the 2l VX but if I find a Cat I'll have a look on it even if the setup is not really the one I've been dreaming about. Idealy I would like a new 1.8VVC with Cat 6 speed gearbox and LSD, so basicaly I would love a R300! Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephaneM Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Hello! Fist message here! To have a short discuission about myself, I'm french as Fred68, & I want to buy an HPC, but it is VERY hard to find here... So Fred68 is right! I hope I will find mine quickly... My target after that is to come & have track days with you, especially on the cadwell track I discovered with Jackal's video... Fred68, if you don't buy it, let me buy it... 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hi Arnie Well 88 -91 me thinks is the same chassis. However there were a few tweeks to the peddle box assembly and bars below the panel below the heater as I found out when buying a new heater tray panel. 91 was the start of the Vauxhall series and the change in front and rear suspension plus other mods to the frame. Suspension mods for the 1988 to early 1991 cars to change to twin front wishbones etc and rear over axel rear ARB were available in 1991 I fitted them to my car. I agree with you it is stiffest but also the heavier than the later ones. Still its more suited to the heavier engines. HPC spec was with LSD that's the spec I used when building mine. 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Q 979 CGY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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