Dry sump help/ part identification needed - With extra questions

[Superwhite R283]

 

Ive been really lucky to source a secondhand k series dry sump kit (bellhousing tank type). I’m currently dismantling the parts to clean then up and making a list of all missing parts or parts that need replacement. While taking the sump apart I've come across an item that I'm assuming is the ‘hi line scavenger filter’ but its purple not gold like the item on the caterham part list for the dry sump kit, also it doesn't have a gauze like the gold one on the list? It also appears to be smaller (comparing the diameter to the diameter of the gold item). I might be on the wrong line completely but here is a picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ylu9f54f9y5w2d9/Photo%2014-11-2015%2C%2017%2024%2002.jpg?dl=0

 

Thanks  

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Jonathan

[Superwhite R283]

Thanks Jonathan :O)

[Superwhite R283]

 

Been digging deeper into the install and have a few additional questions.

 

Extra questions:

1 Purple hi line scavenger filter (as fist post)

2 Best sealer for sump, blue plate and swirl tower - loctite 574 - Now have some :o)

3 Has anyone added a drain plug to the sump, as i assume i have the older sump as there is no drain plug

4 Nut and bolt size to fill hole in camshaft cover where apollo breather located

5 Micro switch for gold pump install photos/part number or Porsche 993 fan belt warning part install photos/part numbers?

6 Catch tank pipe sizes (dia) for link to swirl tower and cam cover breather

7 It looks like i have the old style fitler union 5/8 x5/8 BSP part number 75710, there is a revised version 75710U, does anyone know if its worth upgrading or what they changed?

 

Does anyone have the following:

1 Caterham bell housing tank clutch arm boot cover?

2 Dip stick cover plate

 

Thanks in advance

[Englishmaninwales]

The purple scavenge pick up housing looks like it is the same as the gold item, but is missing the cylindrical gauze filter. There should be an O ring on the inside of the flange to seal with the sump and an O ring in the grove on the outer face to seal with the external pick up pipe.

Loctite 574 is fine.

I discarded my (home made) belt micro switch as I got a false positve in an important speed event....

Don't bother with the cluch arm boot cover.

Check the condition of the belt tensioner bearing. I replace the whole tensioner (and belt) every 1-2 years as a routine service item. The replacements have a plastic tensioner pulley which seems to be fine in service. You could do a bearing search if you want to retain the original CC/Titan metal pulley. Note is is a sealed bearing with high temperature grease.

Titan do a scavenge pump refurbishment service at a reasonable price if you don't know the age / history of the pump. Recommended!

In my view this system is marginal for the needs of the engine and ensure all components are in good condition and pay attention to the (small) oil capacity of the bell tank on track days / racing.

Not sure about the other questions

Malcolm

 

[revilla]

May not be relevant in the case of the dry sump bellhousing, I really don't know that setup, but recently saw another K Series with a wet sump that was missing the rubber boot and had a very rusted clutch arm that was chafing away at the wiring loom every time the clutch was operated. I would just check to make sure that all of the wiring is clear before deciding not to bother with it.

[Superwhite R283]

Thanks chaps  

 

There is a o-ring on the purple part. Probably not a good idea to try and add some gauze i guess, could come out.

 

I was planning on replacing the tensioner and belt. Guess no one knows the rover part number for the tentioner, i think its for a power steering belt??

 

Called titan, will get the pump sent off  

 

No competion use and only light track use, im very kind to her  

 

Any other comments welcom...

[Wrightpayne]

Darren,

My sump has the same drain plug as the dedion diff - sierra. TBH I usually disconnect one of the hoses and it drains most of the oil.

Tensioner:

Rover PQG100180A

Caterham 75697T

OCD - I keep all the part numbers of everything I've bought for the 7 !! 

 

Regards

Ian

PS - I've read the purple pump is not as good as the gold one - perhaps talk to titan about this.

[Wrightpayne]

on the caterham parts site the purple and gold have different belts. I have a gold pump which uses a continental 3PK 765 belt. The purple one is out of stock at caterham but worth a call - only 11.94 or Redline.

Ian

[Superwhite R283]

Thanks everyone. Just to confirm i do have the gold pump, guess the cahp that had the system before upgraded the pump  

[Tigger]

What an interesting thread and good timing too.

i'm also in the process of upgrading from purple to gold pump as I type (actually the car is at the 7-workshop and Chris is doing it!).

One issue he has discovered is that the purple oil pick-up mentioned above is a 3/4" spigot and the gold pump is 1", rather than stepping down the flow with a reducer it needs a replacement 1" spigot.

I've just been in touch with Titan and they're coming back to me.  Will up-date when i get any info.

Tim

[TomB]

Shame we have to work so hard to get parts for our DS systems! 

Tom - purple pump DS, shiny swirl tower, drain plug plate ;-) 

[Superwhite R283]

Hi Tim

 

Interesting. Do you mean the purple item in my first post, ie the part that goes into the sump with normally has a gauze in it? If so there must have been two sumps (one for the purple and one for the gold) as the hole in the sump wouldn’t be big enough to take a larger dia pickup pipe.

 

Be interested to see what titan say.

 

Cheers Darren 

[TomB]

I was meaning a purple scavenge pump.  Its been so long since I had the system apart I cant remember exactly, but ISTR that there is a purple union on the bottom of the front RHS of the sump that attaches with two small (8mm?) caphead bolts.  Ill look later and let you know. Im not aware of two different DS pans, I have never head BC chatter about different sumps, so there could be a different union for the gold pump.   

[Tigger]

Hi Darren,

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion as you that Titan must have made two different sump pans! Dave from Titan should have the info when he gets back to me.

The OD of the purple bit appears to be 7/8" this reduces down to 3/4" ID.  There doesn't seem to be enough 'meat' between the main bole in the casting and the 8mm bolts either side to allow it to be reamed out to 1".  If there is a way to ditch the purple insert then this would increase the diameter closer to the desired 1" but then a different solution would need to be found to filter the oil before it got back to the scavange pump.

If worst comes to the worst I might have to find someone to make up a suitable union for the bottom of the pan, if I did I'd try and get one with a 90 degree elbow to simplify the hose run to the pump.

Tim

[Superwhite R283]

Hi Tim

 

Be good to know what titan say.

 

My purple insert didn’t have the gauze in it (I've asked titan if they can supply it) and I don’t believe my ‘high line pipe/bracket adaptor’ (CC part number 75716) has the flange sticking out (that goes into the purple part) as in your photo, I'm shure mine is the same as the part on CC web site 75716, ill check tinight. http://caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=3110

 

Cheers Darren  

[Tigger]

Now things are becoming a bit confusing.

I've been in touch with Titan and they have a couple of parts, one for the early kit (a) and another for the later kit (b)

 

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

it won't take long for you to spot these are a little different to the pictures previously posted.

Both variants are 5/8 BSP.

I have asked Titan to confirm if sufficient oil can be flowed to satisfy the gold pump's needs, but it makes me think, did Caterham modify the Titan kit. If anyone with a gold kit could photograph their sump outlet and post it here it would be most helpful.

Tim

[Superwhite R283]

Ive taken some pictures of mine:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/02f562d7n3e4emq/Photo%2018-11-2015%2C%2018%2031%2056.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i16zmn4gcb25dp3/Photo%2018-11-2015%2C%2018%2033%2021.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqwqolk8ev1hz4y/Photo%2018-11-2015%2C%2018%2033%2034.jpg?dl=0

Appears that the internal dim of the purple insert is less than the pipe feeding it (well sucking from it), but I'm guessing the gold version of the purple part is the same size, otherwise as mentioned before the sump would need to be different. Gold version:

http://caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=1476

[PROBE2]

i did purple to gold upgrade including tower, hope this helps

the following parts are replaced - pump, belt, pick up pipe (outlet 1" old 3/4"), spacers for pick up to sump, scavenge hose 1" (old 3/4"), gold filter union, new oil pipe top tower inlet to pump outlet, blanking union for belltank (old inlet) also need to remove metal from sump to fit new pick up pipe

the size of the filter union in sump is the same whether purple or gold, its the pick up pipe that takes to 1" to feed pump inlet.

I am not aware that sumps are different other than the new type has a drain plug which is effectively original sump with a socket for plug welded in