fordy Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 in response to Hoopy really from a thread in ChitChat.............. I notice that the new Rally design catalogue lists 3 new different Caterham 7 front brake kits. The older kit was Dynalite II calipers and solid discs (235mm) and is dead cheap. The new midilite calipers can be had with 235mm or 280mm discs, x-drilled if you like for more cost. My thought were the 280mm discs might be over -braked and the midilight with 235mm drilled discs would be about right. my thoughts were initially based on cost, searching for a good quality 4 pot brake upgrade without resorting to the expense of the AP calipers. I am aware of the Alcons and have ready many reports, but am also aware of kits from HiSpec and Willwood, but have not read many reports on their effectiveness. The reason for this posting was initially because I saw that hoopy was dreaming of a willwood set-up to replace his AP set-up and I was wondering why........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I'm not looking a willwood specifically. I just want a nice light alloy 4 pot calliper designed to take solid disks that are a large as will fit in a 13" wheel. The APs need a vented disk which approx 2kg heavier than a skimmed solid disk and a they're more expensive (i think they're 120 each, or that may be for the pair - skimmed is 170 a pair). Willwood and alcon have been mentioned. I'll be getting the hispec rear 2 pots with integral handbrake so I may get hi-spec fronts as well if they do something suitable. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I have "Hi-Spec Racing 4" billet aluminium calipers and they are as they say "the muts nuts". Someone will tell you that the Racing 4's do not have dust seals - true but neither do Caterhams AP's nor James Whitings Alcons. Anyway provided you clean the piston off before pressing back into the caliper when changing pads, then there's no problem. *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I think the original Caterham (triumph) discs are about £20 each from a motor factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 i think i'm getting ready to open a book on hi-spec calipers for a bulk buy. should be able to get a decent discount and enocurage them to bring out the 2pot handbrake equipped rears a bit sooner if we have an order for a dozen pairs with them... looks like they'll get my front caliper business as well. Now, I just need to persuade somebody to buy my front APs to fund all this... How much were the "Racing 4" calipers Steve 🤔 HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Just a word on the Wilwood setup. I believe these fit OK in live axle setups but I tried their disk on my de dion and the disc fouled the track rod end. I know other people have experienced this and have either gone elsewhere, machined their hubs down so the discs move outward and away from the track rod end or I did hear of one person that took and angle grinder to the track rod end!!! *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Dave, If I remember correctly my kit (calipers, brackets, discs, brake pipes and bolts) was around £475 + VAT but this was a year ago so I guess they might have gone up a bit. I would definitely be interested in the 2 pot rears from Hi-Spec. Do you know if (a) they will use the standard disks and (b) will the handbrake cable just connects direct to the new caliper without any mods? *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 from memory it looks like the handbrake just clips in.... i guess they'll use any disks of the right sort of size. things like this i can ask them - keep any other questions coming HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hoopy, I wouldn`t hold your breath on the Hi Spec rear calipers, I have it in goog authority that they have been promising these for years and produced nothing to date. Do not dismiss the Caterham uprated fronts, the vented kit is still lighter than the standard 2 pot solid disc set up. The disc rotors are of a very high quality steel and are very durable not to be compared with some of the £20 crossdrilled disc on offer from a well know supplier. Be aware also that some of the best Pads do not fit the Willwood Calipers. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Yes but aren't the Caterham disks a whopping £120 + VAT each?? *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Let me get this right Hoopy. You are selling your AP front setup to buy a lesser performing setup???? Loopy Hoopy..... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke back @ 512k Edited by - fast arnie on 22 Jan 2003 23:43:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Arnie, You are selling your AP front setup to but a lesser performing setup???? This statement will be based on extensive performance data that you can share with all of us then 🤔 *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Er, no, it will be based upon brand snobbery, bar-room punditry and the undisputable fact that anything Arnie has on his car is better than anything else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 BTW, Rob, I agree that HiSpec have been promising the handbrake equipped rear calipers for ever now, but they had the prototype at the Autosport show so it looks like things may be moving forwards. I still wouldn't put any money on it though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Rob: I've seen the Hi-spec prototype so they're getting close. If a load of us say here's our money it can only help speed them up. I can't afford them for 6 months anyway so a lead time isn't a problem. I can always keep waiting and spend my money on other seven things in the meantime if they take longer... The AP kit is lighter than the standard setup because the calipers are alloy. The disks will be heavier. I was going to source the disk from Fluke who will then lighten them. They have tested their lightened disks with RS14 pads (the ones meant to eat disks) and had no problems after 10,000 miles in a Vx westie. The lighter disks are cheaper than the AP ones as well. Arnie: No need to reply because... DanB/Steve: I think saving 4 kg, having cheaper disks and, being open minded, similar braking performance is a benefit. Steve reckons they're stupendous becuase he has them. Arnie reckons they aren't because he doesn't have them... HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Steve, The extensive data can be obtained from anyone who has used them. No fade, quick warmup and as Rob has said, unbelievable durability. Oh and my AP calipers do have dust seals......... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke back @ 512k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 What do Caterham use vented disks just for fun? 4Kg saved sounds like a little too much to me I didn't think you could possibly save that from the disks. I reckon the AP's are excellent and give consistently great performance. Yes AP do have a good brand name I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 that doesn't mean that no other caliper can offer the same... HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Vented disks look cool, and sound cool and are more expensive. that seems to be pretty close to caterham's marketing "strategy"... HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Open wheel classes like Formula Ford (maybe even F3?)run solid discs. Mini race cars went from vented to solid to save weight. As long as it stops the way you want it, who cares what you have? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Fordy, I have the Hi Spec 280MM solid discs with four pot calipers, and they are excellent. This set up doesn't result in overbraking, in fact because of the greater diameter you have a lot more control, all the way to lock up, very easy to use with a lot of "feel". Very light too. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 The extensive data can be obtained from anyone who has used them. No fade, quick warmup and as Rob has said, unbelievable durability. Yep just like my Hi-Spec setup - no fade, very quick warmup BELIEVABLY durable and would stop an Intercity 125 doing 125mph 😬 😬 *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 I started off originally interested in the Hispec stuff as I had heard the problems with the Wilwwod setup. Its just that there seems to me 2 new Willwood setups based on the new midilite calipers (using 235 or 280mm discs). Newly listed in the 2003 Rallydesign catalogue (their website still showing old catalogue though). I doubt anyone has tested these yet though, they were only slightly more expensive than the older Willwood Dynalite setup. I only noticed the range of pads available for the midilites was even less than the Dynalites. The Hispec website seems to be perpetually down. Those who bought the Hispec setups...can you let me know what you ordered. ISTR they did specifically mention Caterham on the website. Costs might be helpful too. Might be tempted into a bulk buy on Hispecs then Hoopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 What wheel sizes are you guys running with 280mm Hi Specs please? With my 13" Superlites I think the maximum I could run would be around 265 mm. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 I believe the Hispec and Willwood 280mm discs will fit behind 13" minilites. The rally design catalogue on the Willwoods says so anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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