glasgow Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I was reading about oil change and came across changing the foam sump baffle. My seven is a 2003 K series, wet sump, 29k miles, road use. I asked my local mechanic to replace the foam baffle with the next service which is due soon. He said he can't recall the last time he needed to change the foam for any car. His view foam replacement is not required for cars who regularly change engine oil. He said using "Forte oil flush" is all what is needed. He is not a Caterham specialist but a trusted guy with good reputition. What is your view please-does the foam really need changing?Thank youAhmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 After 12 years change it or remove all together. Its a part unique to the caterham so doubt he would have come across this before. They do break down and can destroy an engine.Also do the sump gasket mod - two 10mm holes in the ledge of the reuseable gasket to allow oil to drain back into sump.Lots in the archives on both topics. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 OMG, the adventure of having a Caterham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Ahmed What Ian says above. If it's the original foam (or more than a few years old), then it needs replacing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 It must be Spring ..... Ahmed is posting lots of technical questions Ditch the foam my friend, and add the extra holes in the big shelf on the sump gasket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 As the above...When it comes out, you'll probably find various areas of it that are crispy and brittle. They may even break off into little crumbly bits in your fingers, of a size just perfect for blocking oil pipes and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1in7 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Ditto Ian. I think the recom mended replacement is 5years. Got mine replaced when I bought car. It was still ok after 7 years but it was a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROBE2 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Likewise, I removed foam and did gasket mod, car was 10 years old and 14k miles, foam was fully intact though but followed general advise to remove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I replace mine annually. Dave Andrews - generally considered to be the most knowledgable K series engine builder - says ditch it, but most other engine builders say keep it, at least for track use. It would technically be illegal under our race regs to remove it, and especially to modify the gasket, so I've kept mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Bassett Posted April 9, 2015 Area Representative Share Posted April 9, 2015 I did the DVA mod to mine - Dave knows his stuff, therefore to me it made sense to do it. Had it of been a 'guy down the pub' who told me to do this I might have thought differently!If you are serious about track work though a full dry sump approach is the way to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Thank you all for your input. I have been looking through the archive this evening but many links are not working.So now please excuse my ignorance but lets go back to basics please:- Why the foam is there?- why it is "not legal" to race a wet sump car with no foam?- why the holes are recommended in the gasket shelf?- if I am to replace the foam with a new one, would I still need the do the holes in the shelf or the holes are only needed if I remove the foam?- If the holes are needed to help draining the oil back into the sump, so why not just to get rid of the shelf altogether. Instead of the shelf being "hanging" there, why not to trim the gasket to match the sump and eliminate the shelf altogether?- Just of interest, If the foam is a part only unique to Caterham, how would the sump gasket looks like in other cars that use K series for example Rover and Elise-would they have the gasket shelf? would they have holes in the shelf?Finally, if I don't feel comfortable removing the sump myself and I am to ask my local mechanic to do it for me, is there any particular thing I should let him be aware of?Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Happy to be corrected by others but:- Why the foam is there?It's not 100% clear, but the most common reason given is to help avoid remove air from the oil caused by crank rotation in the oil.- why it is "not legal" to race a wet sump car with no foam?racing regulations say the car needs to be standard except for the changes allowed by the regs. So if the regs don't say you can remove the foam, then you have to leave it in - why the holes are recommended in the gasket shelf?to assist with the return of oil from the top of the engine into the sump, to be then recirculated via the oil pickup- if I am to replace the foam with a new one, would I still need the do the holes in the shelf or the holes are only needed if I remove the foam?they are for different things, so doing one doesn't have a bearing on the other- If the holes are needed to help draining the oil back into the sump, so why not just to get rid of the shelf altogether. Instead of the shelf being "hanging" there, why not to trim the gasket to match the sump and eliminate the shelf altogether?because then you would make it easier for the oil to spash out, get aerated by the crank and/or move away from the pickup. The shelf is there to keep the oil in the sump once it has got there.- Just of interest, If the foam is a part only unique to Caterham, how would the sump gasket looks like in other cars that use K series for example Rover and Elise-would they have the gasket shelf? would they have holes in the shelf?the sump in a Caterham is a custom part and much shallower than normal cars. If you have a deeper sump, most of the issues go away - the oil is further from the crank and you can shape the sump to drive the oil towards the pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hopefully any decent mechanic would know about the two long bolts that go back into the bell housing. Would hate to see him undo all the others, then bash the sump with a big hammer "as it is a bit stuck to the gasket mate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 - It looks like the foam is there for a reason. Any problem encountered in running the car after removing it altogether?- If I decide to remove the foam and do the modification holes, I take this has no implication on the type of engine oil to be used, how to test the dipstick and how frequent to change the oil.- if i leave (or repalce) the foam, is it better not to use oil flush as it may damage the foam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I added the two holes in the gasket as I figured it wouldn't do any harm.I also still use the foam after 14yrs - although not the same piece! It gets changed every couple of years. In my own experience, it's never gone crispy - I always use the same oil, I never use flushing oil, the car gets thrashed but so far never over heated.Still managing to use the original sump gasket too - no leaks yet Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hi Ahmed, hope both you and Margaret are well.Did this mod years ago after Myles issues, Is very easy to do and am happy to help if needed. Make sure you do it when changing your oil as saves trying to save "fresh" oil when dropping the sump.Also have some gearbox oil which you could use to top up as it won't need much, if any. Also have shortened key to remove the plug and funnel and tube to fill it.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyb Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I once had a leak on the sump gasket after replaceing the foam. I'd cut it slighly too large, and it was trapped against the gasket causing it not to seal. Just something to watch out for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I never had a problem with the foam but ditched it anyway. That was over 30,000 miles ago and all seems to be okay. The engine is now nudging 55,000. I wouldn't use oil flush unless I had a specific reason to and I would never use it with foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Ditched mine when I got the car at 17k miles. Now on 75k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prangerman Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 The last time the foam was changed in my R300K after 4 years it was as new (apart from the oil. ..). Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 That's because you don't go very far in it ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Glad to read such good things about k-series sump gasket.My problem with this gasket is not yet solved (refer to the post I started in January - I've stopped posting, afraid of feeding up the community...! ) : one careful installation of a new gasket : leakage apparently from the rear wall of the sump removal of the gasket, careful inspection of it and of the sump, careful installation again : leakage from the rear wall of the sump again removal of the gasket, careful installation with Loctite red RTV silicone : same storythe sump is off the engine again and I don't know what to do or what to check.If someone hasn't read my post and has some idea or similar experience to share ....Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hello, David we are good.Hope all is well with Judith and yourself.Thank you for offering to lend a hand if required. Oil is already due for a change but the gasket is out of stock at CC. I do understand the gasket is reusable but I prefer to have a spare one before I start removing the sump.I will be in contact soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The sump gasket is very thick. I have been reusing mine for the last 75,000 miles. It has been off quite a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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