jean materne Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 This is not likely.We've done the change very carefully and in perfectly clean conditions.How do one post pictures on this forum ?I'm used to send pictures on a site for giving them an address but what part of the address must we actually copy to put in the URL frame ?Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 12, 2015 Member Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm used to send pictures on a site for giving them an address but what part of the address must we actually copy to put in the URL frame ?It needs to be the URL just for the image, not of a page that includes the image. Try it, and if it doesn't work the first time tell us the URL of the page as plain text.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Test.Nothing to do with the post, just one picture which I took at the last Goodwood Revival. http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/92191_Cobra_Jag_rszd.jpgIt works Pictures of the sump soon ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks Jonathan ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 This is just a couple of thoughtsTry putting a tap into the block sump bolt tapings to make sure that they are clear. I cant remember off hand but I seem to think that most are open but that there are a couple of blind tappings. You can get blockages if someone has used a gasket sealer such as Blue Hylomar which has set in the taping and thus preventing the bolts from tightening fully.Also check to see that the caphead bolts are not binding in the holes in the sump as they are often tight. The spring washers need to be the thin square section wire type as opposed to the larger flat type as the spring washer sits in the sump drillings not on the top of them. If they are too wide as you tighten them they will bind against the bolt giving the appearance of them being tight when in fact they are not . They should not extend beyond the caphead part of the bolt.Make sure that you run a die down each caphead bolt as wellLastly make sure that they are the correct length and not overly long so bottoming out before they tighten down.You can check the sump mating flange for true by having someone hold the mating face flat against a window and going around the edge with a feeler blade to see if you can get anything between the mating face and the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hallelujah !I believe I've spotted the place where the oil is sweating from !One can see the wet trace at the junction between the sump rear face and the bell housing.http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/64966_IMG_0617.jpgThis other picture hereunder shows the underneath view of this junction and how the oil flows along the damaged ridge at the bottom of the sump towards the front of it.http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/31942_IMG_0624.jpgAnd a little further down the sump towards the front of the car.http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/35505_IMG_0625.jpgYesterday night, the sump was completely cleaned and dried.This quantity of oil has come through the thin junction in exactly 24 hours. The sump will be removed next week-end. Now I know where to concentrate my attention.Thanks to Oldbutnotslow for all the recommendations about the screws. I'll certainly pay attention to these as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonL Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Snap! Same place as mine. I also noticed a fine splattering of oil on the underside of some of the water hoses and cables above the the exposed fly wheel on the RHS of the engine. As I said in an earlier post, mine has been diagnosed as a rear crank seal leak hence some oil being picked up by the flywheel. Hope you get it sorted Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 OK That looks like a potential cause.I only run my car on track and as such I run it fairly low at around 110mm when measured at the chassis engine mounts. This is around 40mm lower than the recommended height for road cars. The result is that over a year of track use I wear away the ribs on the sump and have to have new sacrificial metal welded in place. Well the kerbs are part of the track after all Given the fact that my sump gets clouted regularly I always carry out a "petrol test"Essentially if you put a length of blue paper wipe under a clean dry sump, then put the sump down on it and pour some petrol into the sump it should show the area where the leak is coming from after a very short time.Then just get the sump rewelded and bobs your uncle!This picture was from an R500K that a customer bought where it had been raced. The sump was worn to such an extent that it has almost had a hole through it. It had been repaired by using Plastic Padding!! Not by me I should add!This took a while before I found the oil leak. This was caused by the sump plug being too long which in turn caused the boss to fail. If you look closely you will see an hairline crack around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sorry I cannot help with the leak but just posting to say welcome to the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/89275_Crankshaft_K_series_16.jpgThanks Jon,Is the oil level above the crank seal when the engine is not running ?And I have difficulties to figure out how oil coming out of the crank seal could leak at such a rate at the junction which is shown on the picture unless that oil has already pretty much filled the bell housing. There is small hole at the bottom of the bell housing. Should oil not come out from there if it was the case ?Again, the removal of the sump should allow to see if the bottom part of the bell housing contains some oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks Juju Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The oil level is about to the top of the sump. Look at your dipstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Remove the rubber gaiter around the clutch arm. Don't drop the metal part into the bell housing. Look inside through this aperture with a good light .... can you see oil at the floor of the bell housing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 From what I understand from what Dave Andrews told me, oil tends to be retained in the recess behind the crankshaft flange, he tends to drill an additional drain to allow it to escape. It is this reservoir of oil that leaks from the crank rear oil seal when the engine is left standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 The sump was removed last week-end.This is what was found at the rear of it, where the main leak was spotted some days ago.http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/88407_IMG_0655.jpgThe oil has obviously leaked through the gasket and accumulated in this recess which is a small extension of the bell housing .This is evidenced, I believe by the amount of oil on the sealing print of the gasket in that place as well as the fact that the hole in the sump located outside of it and partly covered by the gasket also contained a certain quantity of oil.http://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/27224_IMG_0672.jpghttp://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/64027_IMG_0673.jpgI think that the possibility of oil leaking from the crank rear seal can be eliminated given the quantity which has leaked in such a short time with the engine off and the fact that it could not have flown without leaving a substantial trace on the flywheel.I’ve laid the sealing face of the sump on a glass table and it looks quite flat with no obvious defect.There no other solution probably than trying to fit the gasket again but with some sealing product thi time (Loctite ?- something which could be used on the greasy gasket if it’s possible – these are out of stock with Caterham – any other potential source of supply for this gasket ?) and torqueing the screws at the right value (does someone know what it is ? the value we applied – 25 Nm - is from the technical handbook of the k-series fitted in the Elise with no seal and oil level under the sealing faces).Any exchange of experience welcome !Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Try Redline Components ... email mick@redlinecomponents.co.uk. or maybe any supplier of car spares in Belgium. Same gasket fitted to all k-series Rover cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 "Same gasket fitted to all k-series Rover cars."That's right, the outer part is the same but there is an extension towards the inside of the sump on the gaskets of the k-series engines fitted in the Caterham. It is supposed to help retaining the oil in the sump and the level of it always above the oil picking pipe at high cornering speeds.I don't know if it's really necessary but I don't feel like using the standard gasket even if I don't feel good about the pool of oil which is constantly retained above the extension. I've read about holes drilled in this extension to renew the pool and reduce the pressure against the sealing faces...(?) Any experience or comment about it ?Thanks for the information concerning Redline Componentshttp://www.heberger-image.fr/data/images/26274_IMG_0658.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I removed the foam in the top of the sump and made the two holes on the 'shelf ' of the sump gasket to allow the oil to drain into the sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Is that common practice ?I guess you wanted first to get rid of the foam and the potential problems of oil picking pipe plugging one can read about in some posts ?For what reason did you want to allow the oil to drain into the sump thanks to these holes in the "shelf" ?Or what sort of problem did you sort out or did you try avoiding by doing so ?Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 If they have a gasket in stock at Caterham Cars Dartford factory (ask Darren, the website may not be correct), or at Sevens & Classics, or at Boss Racing ... let me know and I could collect it this week and bring it to Elie Boone's house on Sunday ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean materne Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thank you Ian.I'll check with Darren or Tim (at Sevens & Classics).I would like to be sure however that the new gasket which I have just removed cannot be used again.It's very nice of you to offer me this service but I would not like to cause you any trouble and as I said previously, I won't probably be able to attend Elie's party on Sunday.We'll keep in touch anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It is a very common practice. Many threads about this in BlatChat. It is recommended by Dave Andrews of DVA Power ... who has great experience of working on k-series engines for many years. There is a photo from him showing where to place the drain holes in the gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 By the way ... it's no trouble to collect from the offered places. They are all very close to us. It would ensure a safe (and free) delivery into Belgium .... it then just has to get to you from Elie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The gasket seals on two faces - what is the top face sealing surface like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 21, 2015 Member Share Posted January 21, 2015 Exactly.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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