fordy Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Ok, I gather the Emerald really is the DB's. My question is, on an otherwise standard 1.4SS K series (~128bhp apparently), what benefits would I get by binning the Rover MEMS and getting an Emerald suitably mapped. Can I expect improvements in power (how much?) an/or driveablitly?? Interested as long term this sounds like a nice piece of kit that you can move from car to car or engine to engine as the upgrade process proceeds. Again, assuming that the exhaust side was taken care of what benefits would I expect with throttle bodies/cam etc.. Or should I bin the 1.4 early on and try to source myself a 1.6/1.8 unit? Anybody out there with tuned 1.4's?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 My question is, on an otherwise standard 1.4SS K series (~128bhp apparently), what benefits would I get by binning the Rover MEMS and getting an Emerald suitably mapped.Probably no benefit apart from the ability to modify your engine and have it remapped. Can I expect improvements in power (how much?) an/or driveablitly??Doubtful. You can find power improvements on some cars which aren't already mapped properly, but by all accounts 128bhp from a 1.4 is pretty reasonable. You'd need to make changes all round to improive significantly on that. Again, assuming that the exhaust side was taken care of what benefits would I expect with throttle bodies/cam etc.. No idea WRT the 1.4. Or should I bin the 1.4 early on and try to source myself a 1.6/1.8 unit?How much do you want to spend, how much power/torque do you want, what do you use the car for, what gearbox/tyres/brakes do you have? In truth, if you go down that route, it might pay you better to sell the car and buy a more powerful one with the spec you want. The 1.4 is a good car in its own right, but to turn it into an R400 will require more money than the difference it would need to sell and buy... I had this problem with a crossflow. Ended up selling and buying an SLR. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dba11 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Last year at the se7ens rolling road session at Emerald, Allen Payne got 135bhp out of a 1.4K with a modified DVA head and Emerald. Dan Jermyn in a Fury got 151bhp out of his 1.4K, not sure if that was with an Emerald though. I think his engine was built by Warrior. Dave Andrews will have more details if you email him. Daren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 Its all quite tricky this power lark. At the moment I certainly don't *need* anymore than I have as I am not accomplished enough in the car as it is. But it's always worth knowing what your upgrade options are in the long term beause it can drive some of the decisions in the short term. I have no doubt, given another 18mnths, i'll feel ready for more power. I am beginning to suspect that to go to larger power would be more cost effective to sell the car and move up to a car already installed with the 1.8, a better base for tuning. If thats my long term goal, then I should limit the spend on the current car as the Lord "law of diminishing returns" is worse if you only keep all the trick bits for a year! OTOH they do say a Caterham is for life and not just for Christmas, and its does keep striking me the lengths some people have gone too to upgrade their cars when it would clearly have made sense to just change car!!!! I'd reckon longer term something ITRO 160-180bhp would be nice. Heres another related question then, would it be easier to convert a later K car or a X-flow car to Duratec power? I do like the idea of a duratec 1) because of course I have been brainwashed by the company I work for and have blue blood and 2) I think its likely to be the next Caterham engine choice. Surely the K can't be stretched to meet Euro IV emmisions !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I did get about 135bhp but using the standard mems ECU with a modified head. After that session the cams where timed correctly by Dave Andrews and engine felt even better. Talk to Mr. Andrews Regards Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Agree with most here, talk to Dave Andrews. But in general by changing to an Emerald with a suitable map, you *should* notice a better mid range pick up 😬 Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Can't speak with authority on the 1.4 but a 1.6 was tested last year at Emerald on the RR with A] its MEMS and B] Immdiatly afterwards with an Emerald, it saw improvements in Power and Torque. On a subsequent drive on the public road later the owner statedhe felt a marked difference in the Drivability of the car. He didn't want to give the Emerald back [ but since it was mine he had no option] The only change to the car was the fitment [2 mins] of the Emerald[ with a std map of course] the car was not actually removed from the RR, Ask WILL FLY it was his car. 😬 😬 jj N.I. L7C AO. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 looking at this objectively, and from 10+ years of upgraditis, the "best" thing to do is sell your car and buy a car someone has already spent a fortune upgrading and modifying to something close to your target spec or a "std" Caterham spec ie RS/SLR/R300/R400 albeit that they are all different and you are unlikely to have a car to your precise spec. If you were into meccano as a child and enjoy taking the car to bits and building it all the time, as many of us do [ tell me I am not alone ], and want the car to a precise spec, go down the upgrade route and make sure to destroy all the invoices as you do not want to know how much the car has cost after a couple of upgrades. Time to decide is before any major or minor investment as one upgrade leads to another...but to me thats half the fun. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 16, 2003 Leadership Team Share Posted January 16, 2003 Fordy, I'm in the process of converting my 1400SS to 1800SS. Whole job can be done for less than a grand. Started by speaking to Dave Andrews - he supplied an 1800 bottom end, which we then (under Dave's guidance) refurbished - honed bores, new rings, new bearings etc. Even with all the work on the engine, all the gaskets needed to do the rebuild, and a set of 1800 injectors, the cost was only £700. On top of this you need an uprated clutch (speak to Mardi Gras Motorsport (Helix option is good value compared to AP) at approx £150, and slight work on the gearbox input shaft, including a bush & spigot bearing (£17). Even with my extravagent spending on various goodies - silicone hoses, lightweight flywheel, etc - the cost is still sensible. Because of the change to 1800 injectors, the whole setup can be run on the 1400 ecu. However if you contain the spending on the engine, you can probably do the whole job including an Emerald for less than £1500. Add that to the current value of your 1400 and you'll see where I'm coming from. My 1400 hasn't got problems with powder coating, has the handbrake where it should be, and already has a lot of the other mods / bits I would desire if changing. I can't get anywhere near an SLR for the money I'm spending. BTW, one of the 1400s up our way has had the Dave Andrews head treatment, converted to 1800, and is still running on the 1400 MEMS putting out about 160 bhp! Speak to his holiness, aka Dave Andrews! Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 At the prices quoted by Stu, I think this makes good sense. In addition, might I add that there are a lot of people upgrading to specifications way above what you are considering. It might be worthwhile looking out for cranks, pistons, rods, liners, already-DVA'd 1600/1800 heads etc. You never know, you might be able to achieve 200bhp from quite a modest budget. Not trying to sound too mercenary, but I've got some standard 1800 injectors for sale... Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 16, 2003 Leadership Team Share Posted January 16, 2003 Fordy, Grab the injectors whilst there going - you'll regret it if you don't! I'm steadilly collecting bits for the next stage of my power struggle. Once you've switched to 1800, bits crop up all over the place! TBs, heads, cams, all can be had at good prices if you keep an eye on the ads. It's amazing what an extra £500 can achieve, but you'll definately need the Emerald if you start messing with hot cams and induction. better though to sort out any head work early, everything else is then "bolt on". Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom7 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Being reasonbly close to MG-Rover, I am not aware that they are investing in a brand new engine to meet Euro IV emissions, the K series will be around for some time yet. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL FLY Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 OI Mr Lyons, how dare you call my car a 1.6 , it's always been a 1.8 unlike your car which has had some growing up to do To see the effect of putting an Emerald on a standard 1.8K series look here. The car has since had a DVA head and Jenvey throttle Bodies and Bernard Scouse airbox fitted and develops 200 BHP at 8000 RPM 143 lb/ft or torque at 6300 with 105ft/lb of torque available from 2200 RPM. The car is smooth to drive either gentle or flat out. It has been timed at 4.86 seconds 0-60 on cold dampish roads. Roy See willfly.net for more info. If you don't spin you ain't trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Hadn't realised you'd actually got your DVA engine together Roy. Congrats. What are your impressions of it? To support Mr Spin's claims, when my MEMS was playing up on my SLR I borrowed an Emerald off a 1.6 K which worked at low to medium revs and loads better than the MEMS ever did. I didn't have enough road to try it out better. Later in the same holiday, I installed my own M3DK with someone else's map and apart from starting (needed to be set-up for my engine) it was far far better than the MEMS could ever get. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 thanks for the replies, keep 'em coming!! I hadn't realised upgrading to a 1.8 could be so cost effective. If I ever did it I would try to do all the work myself (I'm a chemist myself but I work with 300 odd engine designers/developers so should be ok for backup!). I keep eyeing up engine stands and envision a time when I start to strip and engine for rebuild/mods. I'm not too scarred of doing this because I spent some time working on and stripping/rebuilding engines for a period in my university years. It is just cost that always concerned me! I've been very succesful on blatchat so far getting cast offs for peanuts and the car is in much better shape as a result. But I'll keep my eye out towards the end of the summer (when cash eases up) with a view to building a new engine as next years winter project. The Emerald then, seems to be a good idea whatever I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I went from a 1400SS making 132bhp to my homebuilt 1800 in the same car (& on the same RR) making 202. All done on the cheap too (relatively that is). Emerald is easy to 'play' with and sets you up for better/greater/more expensive mods at a later date! Clamshell Club Founder Member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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