Mavic82 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 on my VX I currently have a large Lucas alternator just like the X flow cars. Two large battery connections and a warning light connection. Essentially a two wire install.i would like a small, sub 3kg alternator which I can use at least the existing lower mounting point to install. The 40a Denso type for example. However I would like a two wire unit not a three wire. I do not want to install a ignition feed all round the engine bay.any suggestions? Or can I simply piggy back a wire from the battery connection to the ignition connection. I appreciate this would leave the windings live when ever the battery is connected but since I use a master switch this is really only connected when I intend to drive.any thoughts or suggestions for two wire alternators?thanks Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Can't offer a suggestion of an alternator as I'm fitting a 3-wire Denso unit this winter (from Powerlite), but I didn't think of piggybacking the battery connection for the switched feed. I was just going to trail a new feed along the original loom as you say, so would be interested in hearing why piggybacking is or isn't a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birkin S3 ZA. Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Here is the type i have just fitted http://www.motorsport-tools.com/powerlite-universal-40-amp-lightweight-race-alternator.html it is the three wire type.I was using the single wire type but after loosing three Power master ones in as many weeks due to faulty build quality i thought it better to try another make, if you do join the p+ to the ignition wire it will drain your battery over time unless you have a isolator switch.Or if your feeling brave wire the ignition feed from p+ through a normally open oil pressure switch then it will give power to the alternator only when you have oil pressure.Maybe just run a new wire around the engine bay, you have until the spring time to finish it.Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Riches Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I have a similar set up with the Raceline alternator. The b+ is supplied from a relay connected via the ignition switch, thus isolating that feed, and stopping the feed from the battery when not being used. Hope this helps. Regards, Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Thanks for the replies. However what I want to try to achieve is either an alternator that does not need an ignition feed or an alternate way of wiring which means I don't run new wiring.cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 22, 2014 Member Share Posted December 22, 2014 Does it ever go on a charger? And if so how is that connected in relation to the master switch?I don't think there are any other additional problems from piggybacking as you describe. You should inform any other driver or buyer that it's a bit unusual.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi Jonathan,no no never goes on a charger, master switch always off when not being run. Not likely to sell either but you make a good point. Mind you it would probably change again, and again and.... Before it gets sold. :-)cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birkin S3 ZA. Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 You could try the single wire alternator they have a set voltage regulator about 14.8v, you might think that's high but my Omex 600 ecu runs very well on it duratec motor drives much smoother in traffic' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks for that and I see they are easily sourced in the US. That may be the solution.i also note that powermaster sell the Denso type with a jumper to the main 12v connection to power the windings as a standard option so I could still do that.however I note scouring the wiring diagram that the feed for the rad fan is a switched live and runs past the point the other alternator connections exit the loom. So probably the best way is to splice a connection in the vicinity to that switched live to feed the alternator as it is intended.therefore I will either use the common Denso 40 amp unit or this one herehttp://www.hc-cargo.com/Default.aspx?ID=7&GroupID=StartersAlternators/Alternators&ProductID=110264&replacing=NISSAN#NISSANas this seems to have the same body dimensions as the Denso but with mounting brackets that will fit straight on the same main mounting as the original Lucas lra 100 unit.cheersGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 3, 2015 Member Share Posted January 3, 2015 however I note scouring the wiring diagram that the feed for the rad fan is a switched live and runs past the point the other alternator connections exit the loom. So probably the best way is to splice a connection in the vicinity to that switched live to feed the alternator as it is intended.Sounds good. Does that come from a relay in your car? Thoughts about fuse ratings? Have a guess and carry some spares...Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 No relay but a 15 amp fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I am converting my VX to run a smaller alternator - this. The bracket has been easy to alter, simple reduce the bracket on the engine mount and move the top bracket to a higher point on the block. I had already coverted to a multi-v pulley and belt, which may have helped.On the wiring, I will be wiring a ignition switched wire to the alternator. However I do have a couple of questions about the wiring: 1 - Do you attach both of the big charging brown wires to the single charging post on the alternator? 2 - A couple of times a relay has been mentioned on the ignition feed. Why would that be needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 3, 2015 Member Share Posted January 3, 2015 Do you have any diagrams or manuals for it? And did you buy a connector thing with the alternator?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 No I didn't buy the connector. Wiring diagram is online here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 3, 2015 Member Share Posted January 3, 2015 Did you find this picture and does "Type 2" look like yours?http://www.brise.co.uk/images/D/image-04.jpgWhere are the two brown wires?I don't think the relay issue is relevant to what you are doing.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Yes, mine is a type 2 (I should have said that!). I was advised that this diagram was to be followed. TBH that was a while ago, I bought the alternator ready for the winter upgrade.As for the 2 thicker brown wires, they where attached to my previous Lucas alternator, along with the Brown and Yellow wire for the warning light. (I have Brown and Black wire in the loom next to the other 3 wires, but that wire was not connected to previous Alternator).I thought I could simple connect Brown & Yellow to "L" on the diagram , Wire a new iginition feed to "IG" on the diagram and the 2 Brown cables to B+ on the diagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Yes the two big Browns should go together. Ignition feed can be taken from the rad fan feed rather than an all new cable.The Brise units are great but so damned expensive. The one I linked to or any other Denso configuration are available from around £80 as they are commonly fitted to plant kit. Anyone who then sells them as light or Motorsport seems to instantly inflate the price. Granted some are not genuine Denso units but stilll..i was trying not to mod the bracket if possible so it would be possible to return to standard but I can see how your spacing would work. This would make this an option as the spacing is the same. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390879079531?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Or use something like this : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALTERNATOR-Komatsu-FG15-12-14V-30AMP-/111239776896?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item19e6684a80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just a thought for those swapping from a Lucas two spade battery connection to a Denso post connection.one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-5mm-male-spade-connector-terminal-/360380300942?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53e856fe8enegates the need to change the standard wiring on the car by allowing the existing spades to be connected directly to the alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I Have a 40 amp Cargo alternator as a spare for my Brise 50 amp Denso. It was an ebay purchase and looked identical. It pretty well was except that the rear cover needed turning through 90 (?) degrees to match up with my existing loom. Although the Cargo alternator is Chinese made, the internals looked fine. The bearings are of course crucial and only time will tell if they are ok (but as it will only be used as a temporary trackside repair it doesn't concern me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 After much searching although in theory a three point mount Denso exists I can't find one.ended up with the common genuine Denso unit. £80 delivered from Maynard Engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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