oldbutnotslow Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Most of the 7's running around today have the older style stub axle and bearing assemblies They are perfectly sound for what you are doing but they do need a dust cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 The uprights are off the car and on the bench so I can give them good thrashing. Im a bit worried about mangling the thread though, even with a nut on to protect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Right, now I'm worried something else wasn't right about my front bearings ...The felt seal; there's a little metal "dish" for want of a better word, which goes onto the stub axle first. Into this fits the felt seal. What goes on next? Should the inner bearing rest directly against the felt seal, or should there be another one of the little metal dishes on the outer edge of the felt seal? On mine there was another dish, but looking at all the bearing kits for sale there only appears to be one dish per bearing set. I've a feeling that the extra dish shouldn't be there to allow the felt to seal against the bearing. Is this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 The felt seal faces outwards ie against the upright and ht metal dish to the outside (no 2nd metal dish) then the inner bearing race (the cone shaped bit), then the hub assy, outer race, washer, nut, split pin, dust capbtw I would definitely upgrade, admittedly my previous car was mainly used on track but my stub axle snapped in line iwth the upright on circuit in France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 @F355GTS - Yes thanks for that, just as you posted I found this diagram that also makes it clear:http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Triumph-Repair-1459/2013/12/spitfirefthub-jpg.jpgWell that's not how mine is, so I guess it's coming off again tonight! The number of things I've found wrongly assembled on this car - it's a good job I'm giving a good going over now I think. The engine block had a hole in it which was patched with epoxy and hidden with silver paint [engine now completely rebuilt with new block]. Constantly oozed oil, thought it was the block/ladder joint leaking but all became clear when the epoxy finally parted company with the alloy and left a hole several centimtres long. The engine (VVC 160) didn't match the ECU (Late VVC 143 EU3) [ECU now replaced with a Z&F map thrown in]. The wiring loom was wrong for the engine (it was wired to use the IAT sensor on the manifold which it didn't have and not the combined TMAP sensor which it did have, was permanently in a LOS mode with adaptation disabled and logging a DTC for IAT -40ºC) [loom now modified]. I think it was built from a starter kit, specified for a VVC 143 and then the builder supplied an MG 160 of his own - and managed to grind into an oilway while converting. It also had one front wing drilled so far off centre it was rubbing the tyre [now replaced] Just one remaining niggle, a persistent knocking from the rear suspension that has defied tracing by myself, Nick Potter and others for two years ... will have a good look over the winter for anything else upside down / inside out / wrong way around!Well with the help of the POBC and a few hints from Google it'll be a lovely sorted car when it's all done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 the felt seal is a well proven method of sealing against abrasive dust and crap - just make sure you soak it in oil first. Ideally it's bonded to the metal "dish", but it'll work if it isn't with carefull assembly. Actually getting the metal dish pressed in square and true without bashing it out of shape is rather more like hard work than ideal though.Don't forget the same basic upright assembly holds the front up on some heavier cars than ours - Lotii, Scimitars, TVRs, the orginal Heralds, Spits, GT6s etc, older formula one cars etc.I've heard of more of them snapping at the top of the trunnion than at the stub axle. Personally, even though I'm a dab had with a big hammer, if you are going to swop the stub axles, remove the upright and press them out - a lot easier. I've done it to remove axles from a pair of uprigths with worn trunnions thread s to fit into another set used on my heavily abused Dutton trials car - 14" wheels, with heavy 80 profile tyres, sat on 1" spacers, and thrashed up off-road trials sections.Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 @Bri - Thanks, I think mine was fairly dry. Will sort everything out properly tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 The felt faces outwards and runs on the machined face on the upright.. the only way to get it in square without damaging the soppy metal cup is to put hub face down on the floor on its studs. Put the bearing in first ! .... lay felt on too with metal cup downwards. Lay a block of wood on it and smack it firmly and squarely with a big hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Just to reiterate ..... that drawing is wrong ref felt seal !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 when you oil the felt seal, only use thin oil, nothing heavy and definitely not grease as the felt will drag against its bearing surface and fall apart in a few miles. I have the T shirt................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 So it fits like this?http://sleurs-motorsport.com/wp-content/gallery/frontsuspension/dynamic/p1110813-nggid03615-ngg0dyn-640x480x100-00f0w010c010r110f110r010t010.jpgPlease, please tell me I've finally understood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yes. Hurrah. Make sure no little sharp bits on upright. Mine peeled the felt off like orange peel one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Woohoo! Got it! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Why is felt used? It obviously works, but has never struck me a very, well, seal-ly substance to make a seal out of. Why not something rubbery? Is it because of the potential for grit and dust to upset a rubbery seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 23, 2014 Member Share Posted December 23, 2014 http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/96/99696-004-058EB9C8.jpgJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A disturbed sealhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30592041 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 23, 2014 Member Share Posted December 23, 2014 That would be... a seal that lost its bearings?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Riches Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Why use felt? Probably a throw back to the dim darks of Lotus. The rubber material available then would probably not last long in contact with wheel bearing grease, felt is non reactive, malleable, and more important for Lotus, cheap. So there may be some swish rubber seal materials now, but the design of these wheel bearings hasn't kept up.Personally I have not encountered any problems, but the bearings did have grease from new, and the seals where re-used when the uprights where refurbished. Regards, Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Maybe the seal just felt that was the right place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Plaice, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 24, 2014 Member Share Posted December 24, 2014 Ahem...... even though I'm a dab ha(n)d with a big hammer... ;-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Drifted into plaice with a mullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 The felt is robust. Used a lot in industry where contamination with solid material is common. The crap simply sits in the felt - the felt continues to seal against more dust and dirt. We still use them in the machines we design and build as we simply can't find anything better and as long lasting. It's not trying to contain oil so it doesn't have to be "sealy".Get solid crap in a face rubber seal that would be used in the same place and it would be immediately compromised and fails to do the job it is supposed to. It wears too - with felt there's less wear once bedded in. Problem in our original case are the taper roller bearings.Deep groove bearings that don't adjust are easier to seal with rubbing seals and shields - the dirt doesn't have the same access into the seal.Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 24, 2014 Member Share Posted December 24, 2014 Interesting. Thanks, Bri.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Thanks Bri, fascinating stuff and yes that all makes sense - sometimes the tried and tested old solutions are still the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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