revilla Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Just giving my car a full service while it's on SORN.I came to grease the front wheel bearings - I was expecting to knock off some metal cups to get access to the bearing gubbings behing but there aren't any! Is this right, or is my car missing something? The castellated nut and split pin are just completely exposed after removing the wheel, both sides.Car is a 2003 SV RoadSport if that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 My previous metric chassis 2009 car had no dust caps but my present 2002 car does have them. I know there was a change in bearing type at some stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 The later larger bearings have an integral seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 Thanks guys, I'm fairly sure I have the uprated front hubs and bearings so probably an internal seal. I'll have a good look when I take them apart to grease them - I'll check for any kind of internal seal and part numbers to confirm, but I probably don't need to worry. Thanks for putting my mind at rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 The larger ones are the same bearing inner and outer. No felt seal either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Post up a picture of the bearing, castellated nut and split pin assembly and someone will be able to tell you. I've had both sorts due to an unplanned upgrade following stub axle breakage/brown undercrackers earlier in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 If it helps, the diameter of the uprated stub axle on my 2008 S3 is about 22mm, and the castellated nut is about 33mm across the flats.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Ian, Mankee, John,Thanks for the extra info - all a bit worrying though. I haven't yet actually taken them to pieces so I can't measure the actual stub axle diameter but the castellated nut is only 19mm, so it sounds like I have the non-uprated standard stub axles and bearings. However there are no dust caps and the area around the castellated nut and split pin is bone dry, no sign of any grease whatsoever, certainly nothing like the pictures in the Getting To Know Your Seven article. Doesn't look like it's ever been greased - so I was assuming I had the uprated ones with integral seals and the grease was all internal! Wheels do however seem to turn smoothly and quietly.Have I been driving round an accident looking for somewhere to happen?Caterham South (whom I bought the car from) serviced it and stamped the book before delivery. Last winter I must admit I didn't do the front bearings as being fairly new to the game I didn't realise what I should be doing on an annual basis. This winter I'm giving it a fulll 12K service myself which is why this has come to light.I can't post a picture at the moment as I'm "in dispute" with my (soon to be ex-) ISP over my webspace but Mankee, I'll email a (fairly poor mobile phone) photograph over to you and you give me your opinion - being someone who has seen both and survived the consequences of them failing! As I say it's still assembled at the moment but hopefully you can see enough to make some comment on it.Cheers,Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Sounds like old style standard bearings. I found these needed constant adjustment as the outer bearing is so tiny. They really should be greased and have a dust cover fitted to keep the grit and water out.I upgraded to fatter stub shafts and sealed bearings for peace of mind ... and to get rid of that horrible felt seal ! Easy upgrade to fit !!Old parts sell easily too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Hi Andrew, got the pic. Definitely the older style bearings as Ian points out. Behind the (small) castellated nut is a big washer, which the bigger bearings don't have. I'll reply to your email in a bit with some info I encountered from another helpful club member after I had my brown trouser incident.Oh, here is Andrew's pic on my Dropbox:https://www.dropbox.com/s/tm9o4oso9n03gg4/2014-12-21%2017.48.36.jpg?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Nasty little nuts ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 While my front suspension is in bits for widetrack upgrade, is it worth me considering upgrading the stub axle/ front bearings for the later set up? Mine are the older style and have done 50k miles on the the car. The bearings as far as I can tell are Ok and they have been generally annually greased and adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 As I said .... I got fed up with constant adjustments ..... and liked the peace of mind having fatter shafts and decent sized sealed bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 @Mankee - Thanks for the link and the diagnosis!I think what I'll do for now is strip them down and inspect, then assuming all is (miraculously) well I'll put them back together and adjust them with the existing components, new split pins and dust caps and packed with Castrol LM. I'll put the uprated stub axles and bearings on the upgrade list as a definite for next year - I've spent too much money on the car already this year!I presume these dust caps are really just these standard Triumph ones (plus CAT) - especially as the Caterham and Triumph part numbers are the same?I've read the GTKY7 article and I'm sure there's plenty in the archives on the subject.Thanks for all your help and advice as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 So can the fatter stub axles and different bearings be fitted to the standard upright Nd hub without any compatibility issues? What does the job of the felt seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yes. The new bearings both have rubber seals built in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 For me and the way I (ab)use my track-only car, upgrading while repairing was a total no-brainer. There was a large chance that they were original parts on an 18-year-old vehicle that has spent virtually all its life being smashed around racetracks/airfields and there was no way I could have predicted the failure. I mean, it occurred not round a corner thankfully, but in a straight line immediately after a gearchange and exactly at the moment when I nailed the throttle.Here's what happened and also a comparison between the two sizes of stub axle:https://www.dropbox.com/s/mq7bv6wbh4ryl68/Broken.jpg?dl=0It may have been possible to X-ray or ultrasound the stub axles (cf. carbon prop thread), but who would go through those lengths to do such a thing? Certainly not I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yes Mankee I do see your point and I will do the upgade when I next service it. Remember my car has a relatively gently life around the byroads of Leicestershire and isn't tracked. If I do get the urge to take it on track I'll attend to the stub axles first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 You can buy a complete stub axle upgrade kit from Redline - it's actually the cheapest way to buy the parts. Removing the old stub axle generally requires a few generous hammer blows to overcome the taper fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Spent an hour or two in the garage tonight, got one front corner all sorted.When I opened it up the, grease that was in there was pretty dry and hard so decided to drop the caliper and remove the hub/disk so I could get at both the inner and out bearings and give them a clean up. I also cleaned all of the old grease from inside the hub void. After degreasing I had a really good look the rollers and race surfaces and all looked absolutely fine. I packed the cleaned bearings thoroughly with fresh LM, spun them with my fingers until it was well worked in and distributed, smeared a dollop on the races and put it all back together. After tweaking the castellated nut to find the slot that spun freely with no play that I can feel I put the split pin in and the job looks a good one.Dust caps are on order and if there looks to be enough clearance behind, I'll go with the suggestion of running a drill through the hole in the centre and fitting an M4 rivnut for easy removal next time.I'll sort the other one out tomorrow.Thanks for all the help and info, I've not only sorted out a potential problem but learned to do one more job on the car for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Revival, glad it's coming along ok. I remember stripping and replacing the wheel bearings was one of the first jobs I did on the car, cutting my teeth 11 years ago when I barely knew one end of a spanner from another!Quick question for others - do I need to whack the stub axle from the wing stay end or the castellated nut end? I was happy hitting the wing stay end last night when I had a eureka moment why it wasn't shifting - was I hitting the right way? Stub axle very firmly secured at the moment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Slacken the rear nut behind the wingstay. Wind it out a few turns .... then hit that same nut with a big hammer .... hard. Mine broke the grip of the taper quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A club (not L7C !) hammer works best. Heavy weight as you can't swing it far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 One of mine was seized right in so I had to remove the upright and take it to a pal with a press. The other, the one that snapped, came out with a few whacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Try some Plusgas trickled into the joint and let it soak in. You may have to remove the upright and hold it in a vice .... then hit the end of the shaft. Or apply local heat before hitting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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