Locking the flywheel/crank K series

[ECR]

It's always a struggle to use the screwdriver in the ring gear method (perhaps I'm doing it wrong somehow) so I would like to investigate the other method as suggested by Dave Andrews as follows

"Other methods include removal of the crank sensor and insertion of some round bar into the crank sensor pattern, but this can only be done on post '97 flywheels and not on any of the 'R' series as the tooth form won't allow it."

Anyone tried this ? Where exactly is the crank sensor ? What diameter of bar ?

 

[Englishmaninwales]

The K series crank sensor is under the No 4 inlet about halfway down the block. The crank sensor body(EU2) is 16mm in diameter and a sung fit in its hole.

I ve never tried locking the crank there. I find the screwdriver in the ring gear usually does the trick.

 

Malcolm

[revilla]

The standard Rover crank locking tool, available in many places on eBay such as here, will lock the crankshaft very effectively through the starter motor hole. Obviously this involves removing the starter motor but for me I don't mind that and it does lock the crank 100% solidly.

I'm having a bit of an issue with my webspace provider right now so if you want to BM me your email address I'll mail you a picture rather than linking to it from here.

[ECR]

mail sent ..

I do find it frustrating when people assure me, calmly, that the screwdriver system works. It's the system that I use but it always takes me many attempts before I get a lock. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong .....  

[revilla]

Reply sent.

Yes I didn't have much joy with the screwdriver either and always worried I would slip and break something, especially when torqueing up that front crank pulley bolt! As you say though, everyone always seems to tell you that's the way to go.

[SM25T]

Done a few k-series cam belts now. Always got away with a big screwdriver wedged into flywheel teeth .... one side of the engine or the other. Last one was undone using visible bit of flywheel on right hand side of engine (drivers side in UK). You do need a second person to hold the screwdriver in place though. Beats removing the starter.

[Englishmaninwales]

I must admit I ve only ever used that locking tool when the engine is out of the car, using the 2 engine to bellhousing fixings at the top of the block. I have never thought of trying it through the starter motor hole - I guess at least one of the holes in the tool lines up with one or two starter fixing holes?

 

Malcolm

[Blue C7]

I purchased a rover locking tool from Rimmer Brothers. you hqave to remove starter motor and grind away the edge of the tool to fit but works great and the crank wont move.

[revilla]

@SM25T: Your comment actually refers to one of the reasons why the screwdriver doesn't work for me; I always work on the car alone. My "garage time" is my "me time", a little quiet escape from the noise of an Indonesian wife (and believe me they make a lot of noise!) and two little toddler daughters (likewise!) into my man-cave. The advantage of the starter hole is it's a one-man job.

 

I guess the reality is there is more than one way to skin a cat and everybody has their own favourite that works for them but probably confounds everyone else as to why they don't do it their way, which is clearly better. Bit like the ways to fill the coolant or fix the click really ;)

[ECR]

Whilst I enjoy working on cars with friends, I do like to have techniques available where a helper is not available. Every time I use the screwdriver method I need a second pair of hands ( as M25 says). The starter motor method has its attractions for me. I'll try it next time

[ECR]

Welll...

The K Engine I have is in an Elise and the starter motor is on the other side of the engine and fitted to the other side of the flwheel. and is pretty inaccessible. It has proved impossible to remove the cover on the Caterham side of the engine (where the Caterham starter fits) again due to accessibility, so I have looked at the bar through the crank sender option. On the Elise it probably needs the rear clam removing to access the crank sender but I guess that it might be pretty easy to do on a 7 . It may be worth you looking at it providing your engine is post 97 and not a R derivative (they apparently dont have the holes in the flywheel). The bar needs to be 16.5 mm dia with a 10mm dia x 12mm long nose. The 16.5mm dia needs to be fairly short to clear a bulge on the block. As the rear clam is off my car at the mo, I'll try the method when I fit the new timing belt.

 

[Slipper man]

I once 'locked' my crank by putting it in top gear and applying the brakes. It worked pretty well, but it used my impact wrench to undo, which you might not be able to do. What does Lotus recommend? There must be an accepted method that is quick and easy on an Elise

[oilyhands]

On the Elise you can put a large screwdriver in the gap between the offside driveshaft CV joint and the flywheel, this is very effective, you just need to drop the undertray. This has worked happily on over 150 Elises.

Dave

[ECR]

The "accepted" method is the screwdriver in the ring gear method but it's not very satisfying if you know what I mean. I don't know what Lotus suggest but it probably involves dismantaling a lot more of the car than you might imagine and special tooling.

 

[ECR]

Oh Yessss !

The peg through the crank sender hole (if it's easy to access) is perfect. Everything is rock solid and allows tightening/loosening of the crank bolt with confidence.

I'll still try to develop my missing technique with the wide screwdriver though, I wonder if Mr Andrews needs another pair of hands everytime he uses the screwdriver method or if it's a one man job, is this where I'm going wrong ?

 

 

[Mick Day]

Roger: it's easier with 2 people, but.............................when you're on your own use a G clamp to hold the screwdriver in place. From memory it can be clamped to the sump/crankcase flange.

[Mankee]

I just ram a big screwdriver in the ring gear either against the back of the block or the bellhousing fixing point, depending on if I'm tightening or loosening the bolt, lean on the breaker bar, make sure the screwdriver won't slip and then heave.  Works fine if you are a garage loner.

[Ian R]

I use a spare valve (I seem to have a few!), bend it 90degrees and use the head end to lock into the ring gear and then look for a handy hole to insert the bent end of the valve into.

This has worked on many engines I've worked on over the years.

 

Ian

[revilla]

@ECR - I must say I quite like the look of that peg method! Where did you get the peg from - do you have access to a lathe? How long did you make the 16.5mm section in the end?

[oilyhands]

The peg/bar method doesn't work with all flywheels, lightweight flywheels or earty ones that don't have drilled holes defining the crank sensor pattern can't be locked that way.

In most instances I can lock the crank and undo the bolt single handed, a second person can be useful to have around to ensure the screwdriver doesn't become dislodged.

Oily

[ECR]

Andrew, I've sent you a file illustrating the method.

Dave

I'm happier to know that 2 people are allowed, I'm a lot more confident like that. The peg method works for me though ...(my flywheel has holes)