Update - Crossflow starter query

[finmac]

Well i have been working away at my crossflow project.... Basically car has not run for about 6 years and engine has since been rebuilt and now refitted to the car.

Having done a full oil drain down i have now refilled the DS tank and am looking to crank the engine to get oil round the system and pressures up before trying to start the car, but the starter seems to be stone dead!

I removed it and had it checked/refurbed, refitted and still stone dead. Ignition comes on fine but when i turn the key to get it to start theres nothing, not even a click.

Wiring wise, the main cable goes straight to the starter from the battery positive and a small cable running from the loom. So no obvious fuses etc in line.

car has Weber Alpha electronic ignition and a battery cut out installed. Although I am not sure these would have any bearing at all on whether the starter should or shouldnt turn the engine over?

Any help/advice etc would be most welcome!

cheers Finlay

[elie boone]

Do you run a earth between engine and chassis ?

[finmac]

Yes, from memory its running from one of the engine mounting rubber bolts to one of the four engine mounting bolts. 

 

 

[virden]

 Have you tried connecting a meter across the terminals to see if you have a circuit?  Tip: if you are on your own and connot hold a meter and  turn the switch at the same time, use a bulb in place of the meter.

 

[John Vine]

The "small cable running from the loom" sounds like the feed to the starter solenoid.  With the ignition on (that is, with the key at "start"), do you have 12v where this wire connects to the terminal on the solenoid?

JV

[finmac]

Thanks for the replies guys, my multimeter has chosen the wrong moment to give up the ghost!

need to buy a new one now, so given my geography that will not happen till next week now.... Annoying!

 

[John Vine]

You could use a 12v bulb to test for live (as virden suggests).

JV

[DaveMorris]

Stupid question - but assume you have the larger (diameter) earth wire from the bellhousing bolt just above the starter motor to the battery earth terminal ? D.

[finmac]

Thanks for the replies guys.

by way of an update.....

multimeter now arrived and some time to have a wee look at the car again, found the following:

1. The earth cable to the battery is in place

2. There is just under 13 volts at the starter measured on the main power lead from the battery

3. The small cable that goes to the solenoid is reading zero volts when trying to start by turning the key

4. Checked all fuses - OK

any ideas as to why theres no power at the solenoid, also wher does this cable come from?

thanks guys!

[Jonathan Kay]

Could that "cut out" or FIA/ kill switch or immobiliser be getting in the way?

Unless you've got something clever like relays or an ECU in the way the feed to the solenoid comes from the starter terminal on the switch or from a separate starter switch. Have you got a wiring diagram? That will give you the wire colours. Trace that with the meter from both ends and see where the voltage does and doesn't get to.

You can also touch a temporary jump feed to the terminal on the solenoid and check that it then cranks. That won't tell you why you're not getting 12V from the switch, but it will reassure you that the solenoid and starter are working, and won't be affected by things like the kill switch or immobiliser.

Jonathan

[John Vine]

Yes, your problem is #3.  Just follow JK's advice. But if a jump lead from battery +ve to the solenoid does turn the starter, have a quick look at the connections behind the ignition switch.  It may just be that one has become detached.

JV

[John Vine]

This may help....

There's a link in post #2 here (http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?t=8688) to what may be a suitable wiring diagram.  Item 42 is the ignition switch, and the starter solenoid is 56.  The connecting wire is coded "WR" -- that is, white/red (AFAIK, that's the standard UK auto wiring code for a switched supply to the starter solenoid).

JV

[Jonathan Kay]

For testing the solenoid and starter with a jump lead... you might find it easier to fit the wire to the solenoid terminal and touch it to the battery rather than the other way round.

Jonathan

[finmac]

Thanks for all the help gents, much appreciated. Have done a bit of wire and connection jiggling and have made a wee bit of progress.... I am now getting a "click" when i turn the key!

The battery charger says its fully charged and the battery is running the lights ignition etc but then again the battery has not been used since the car was last run in 2006! So maybe not enough grunt to turn the starter?

will try jumping it from my battery pack once thats been fully charged and hopefully that will be sufficient to get the starter to turn over

[Jonathan Kay]

Sounds like progress.

What's the voltage on the multimeter before you turn the key and when you do? (Second best equivalent: what happens to the headlights when you turn the key?)

Battery pack or jump start off another car sounds like a good idea.

Still worth doing the direct feed to the solenoid as a diagnostic test.

Jonathan

[Nigel Riches]

Battery last used in 2006! Probably knackered, they don't like sitting around doing nothing. 

Regards, Nigel. 

[finmac]

Well got a new battery, fitted yesterday, charged overnight. Spun up fine today! So cranked till oil pressure came up. 

Next step, try starting it for the first time in 8 years! 

[John Vine]

Good news -- so the fellow who said "knackered battery" takes the prize!  Well done Nigel R.  I'm still puzzled that in post 9, item 3, you quoted zero volts at the end of the solenoid feed when the ignition swich was on "start".  What else did you do under the broad heading "Have done a bit of wire and connection jiggling"?

 

JV

[OliverSedlacek]

It can be hard to make a good contact with multimeter probes, so I suspect when you measured zero volts, it could just be 'finger trouble'.