2015 Tech forum - non-technical regulations

[Mark Durrant]

My comments are as follows:

Run numbers - I suggest it remains unchanged and if you do not want to do the extra runs you can choose not to. I remember as a novice the extra runs were a great benefit.

Edward Lewis - I like AB's suggestion on scoring which will rule out the weather influencing the overall result.

Stickers - I agree we should display the stickers but please can they return to the previous size. This years sticker was too big and was better suited to my trailer than the 7.

Protests - I recommend that no protest is made without the competitor consulting with the Comp Sec or their nominated deputy if they are not present/available, prior to speaking with the Clerk of the Course.  This will ensure consistency and reduce the risk of bad feeling.

[Matthew Willoughby]

The problem we had with the stickers was fitting the logos on for 2 sponsors (plus the Club logo) and keeping it a sensible size.  You have to be able to identify all the logos and I'd rather have a bigger sticker and the cash from 2 sponsors rather than a smaller sticker and half (or thereabouts) the sponsor support.

That decision will not be mine for next year though.........

[RogerLegg]

I like Alan's suggestion for the Edward Lewis Points. It seems like a simple solution to the problem.

I would also support using 7 scores rather than the 5 we have at present thus bring the Edward Lewis Competition in line with the main championship.

[Richard Price]

I don't like stickers on the car, but I fully understand the obligation to our series sponsors, so will happily comply.

I don't think that we should cap the number of runs.

[OliW]

I like Alan's theory on Edward Lewis scoring too.

[CaterBram]

Whilst I appreciate the wish to maximise the number of runs, if the current rules remain and there is no limit then i've no issue with that providing i don't get complaints and pressure on the day to set a number of runs, its either unlimited or not

if individuals don't want to run then thats there choice, but if the run has been offered then it will count even if a single competitor runs.

also can we have some clariity regarding troughie awards in tgis situation

 

for example, aintree lets say first 4 runs have counted on the day for the event, but as now the next 8 fun runs have counted towards the championship. Assuming the the event winner is different to our class winner who takes tge trophy home. I know currently there seems to be a gentlemans agreement (sometimes) but what is the concensoud of what should happen.

 

 

[robmar]

CB - i think having clarity around the number of runs to count (i.e. all that are offered) should hopefully reduce any grief you get.  But if you get any you should make the comp sec or the nominated responsible adult aware.

With regard trophy - IMO on the day if there is a trophy it should be awarded to whomever the organising club deems to have won, even if after the fact our scoring of the 'fun' run mean someone beats that person.

Just my 2ps worth

 

editied becuase I cannot spell

[Simon.Rogers]

Glad to see Microsoft do actually employ some sensible people 

[garybee]

I'm strongly against limiting the number of runs. For those of us that can't afford to do the coaching/track days prior to a club event, the extra runs are likely to be our most competitive of the day.  I don't mind others gaining an advantage by spending time/money to improve but I would be very disappointed if extra runs were not given where available or didn't count towards the result. 

[CaterBram]

Rob, Not complaining just making a point. As on a number of events i've ended up the responsible adult. 

[Gill E]

Chris - but not on your own ;-)

[CaterBram]

[rob spencer]

I agree with Lynn on limiting the number of competition runs to four.

At Aintree we have seen up to six or seven runs timed.  As the other championships competing at the event limit their competition runs, their competitors tend to pack up when they've been done.  This leaves fewer cars in the later runs and consequently the dynamics of the competition change with cars doing a run, getting straight back into a short queue, and then setting a faster time in the subsequent run due to warm tyres (I have a thing about warm tyres I'm afraid  ).  I think we should do everything we can to keep the competition as fair as we can, and limiting the number of competition runs to say four would help that.

As Lynn says, "This would not mean that competitiors could not take advantage if further runs are offered and continue to get track experience, it would simply limit the number of competition runs".

Rob

[mikecocker]

Can anyone tell me when the forum closes and how the decisions on changes are then made, for instance is it only the comp sec or is there a group of people who decide?

[guitarguy]

I take Rob's point re shorter queues and potentially warm tyres.... (not thought of that, as haven't seen it happen). Though having said that, we'd all be in the same boat I guess....
 

[robmar]

CB - didn't take your original point as a complaint, and to be honest you are one of the more responsible adult around usually

[rob spencer]

We are all in the same boat, but I think it relegates the early competition runs to being just "extra practice". But that extra practice is done not knowing when the "competition" is going to start ie when we can all start with some heat in our tyres; if you see what I mean. 

[robmar]

Rob - disagree - you have no real idea how many runs you will get.  There could be an incident, the weather could change unexpectedly (cooler, change of wind direction, oil...), or you may have car issues... so I never approach it like, hey we may have 6 runs I will go slow for the first 3...

You have to push on all runs, planning like it could be your only run, however all the previous runs give you extra knowledge and experience to hopefully go faster...

Practice is for practice, timed runs are the competition*soapbox*

IMO

[OliW]

Isn't there an argument that quick-fire runs after the rest of the field has cleared off might potentially skew the records in the championship too?

Oli

[robmar]

possibly yes but records tend to be set IMO by the fastest driver on the day that the course is in its best condition rather than on how many runs people took on the day.  That might not always be the case.

In reality we are only talking about Aintree here, I don't recall any other venue (outside the first blyton) where we got more than 4 times runs. Some places we are lucky to get 2 in

 

[Mark Durrant]

Stickers - If we are fortunate enough to retain two sponsors why not have two different stickers of the old size that way both are displayed on the car without the need for an oversize sticker

[CaterBram]

Whilst there is a good number of events with 4 timed runs, the only events i've got recorded as more than 4 runs are :-

• Aintree 2012 - 6
• Anglesey National 2008 - 5
• Anglesey National 2013 - 5
• Blyton 2013 - 7

Hence why I don't think there is a big issue in agreeing a maximum number of runs at 4, or you could agree 6 as thats the maximum number of runs my scores sheets are configured for :-)

This would have little impact onto the capability to run but would give a defined and deffinate cutoff in case the odd bizare event does happen.

 

 

[PaulCo]

My thoughts on some of the points:

Edward Lewis - No strong feelings, but the Bowler (hat) proposal has my vote.

Stickers - Next years sticker will need to be at least as big as this years, as despite the usual precautions, it has taken yet more paint off the bonnet. Fully agree that we should support the sponsors and carry the stickers, though.

Number of runs - Let's stay with the No Limit rule. Adds another variable to the day's competition.

Responsible Adult - Chris gets my vote.

Thanks.

Paul

 

 

[Steve Causey]

My thoughts:

Number of Runs:  I would support the No Limit rule (although I could live with a limit of 6 if it makes Chris' life easier).  Similar to some of the earlier posts,  most of the events are a long haul for me so I'm looking for as much track time as possible.

Stickers:  I hate the things!  You may have noticed patches of missing paint on my car from previous years.  That said, I do accept that we have a duty to the sponsors and should carry the stickers.

Edward Lewis:  My understanding of Alan's proposal is that we take everybody's performance versus their PB, rank them (ignoring Classes) and then award points to the top 10.   If this is correct it seems reasonable to me and would reduce the wet/dry run issue.  Might want to consider extending the 'points' to the top 15 so that more people have an opportunity to score?  I'd also support Roger's suggestion that 7 scores count rather than the current 5.

[CaterBram]

Based on the Bowler Hat System.i've done some test scores based on this years events.

using 5 events, top 10 new P/B scoring on each event (10 Points 1st, 1 point 10th)

Gill Elwell - 46
Oliver Wright  - 45
Chris Bramall - 42
Shaun Elwell - 41
Simon Harrison-Moore  - 30
Alan Bowler -  29
Lynn Gilbert - 29
Roger Legg - 28
John Bransfield - 28
Mike Sankey - 17
 

Using 7 Events, top 10 new P/B scoring on each event  (10 Points 1st, 1 point 10th)

Oliver Wright 59
Gill Elwell 56
Chris Bramall 54
Shaun Elwell 53
Roger Legg 31
Simon Harrison-Moore 30
Alan Bowler 29
Lynn Gilbert 29
John Bransfield 28
Mike Sankey 17

 

using this system it is possible for the edward lewis to draw. however I would recommend only the top 5 events count, with event 6 being the tie break.