Running In New K Series

[Andy Checkley]

I have recently finished the build on my new seven. The engine is the K Series VHPD with a dry sump, but I would imagine running in rules for all K series would apply. The factory tell me that 500-1000 miles before starting to push the engine hard.

 

The thing I can't make my mind up on is whether I should use standard Castrol 20-50 mineral oil for the first 500 miles then replace with the Comma synthetic. I currently have synthetic in and have done the trip to SVA and back which was about 50 miles, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts about changing before I put any more miles on the clock. I have heard that using a bog standard mineral oil will allow the engine to remove any bearing high spots, and also allow the rings to properly bed in. Other suggestions have been that these new engines are so good on the tolerence front that its ok to start with the synthetic from day one.

 

Any comments would be welcomed.

 

Thanks, Andy

[mark.hall]

I think it was Roger King who suggested that a mineral oil would be best for the running in period, but I don't remember if that was a general rule or specific for crossflows. A search of the archives may be worthwhile. FWIW I would always use a well known brand of mineral oil for the first 1000 miles for exactly the reasons you stated, and then change to synthetic after the running in is complete.

[Paul D Jones]

A local engine tuning company told me the best way was to use ordinary oil to run in with then flush the engine through and replace with the expensive synthetic oil as the synthetic oil is so expensive and not needed for the first few 1000 miles as you use reduced loads and revs etc and warm the engine through. He also suggested changing the mineral oil after 500 miles then again at 1000 miles and check the condition of the oil i.e. still golden brown /no grit etc. B.P. do an oil survey/examination service for predicting failures etc on the ammonia compressors at work so may do the same for engines all they need is an oil sample [100ml.] but its not cheap if anyone wants more details I will ask my manager for the contact at B.P.

 

paul

[andy oliver]

I put Mobil 1 in my VHPD from new.I phoned Minister

on the subject of running in and they said the

same as your comment on the tolerances being such

that this was fine.I wonder if putting cheaper oil

in for the first 500 miles may be more to do with

economy.I have just completed 500 miles so if you discover anything else please put it on the posting.Ta.

[Mike Bees]

Andy,

 

Not a bad idea to use a mineral oil for running in (it certainly won't do any harm), but I would try to find something that copes with cold better than a 20W, especially given that it's now winter. A 10W-40 would be much better.

 

For an explanation of oil grades take a look at:

 

http://www.brakehorsepower.com/speedtrap/engineoil_bible.html

 

Mike

[simonwelton]

Whilst on this subject, my superlight has now done about 100 miles and I want to do an airfield day quite soon as the handling is so different to my previous 7 I think I need practice "off road". If I managed to do 500 miles in the next couple of weeks and changed the oil would I realistically be asking too much of a new engine, perhaps I could restrain myself and use the airfield day as a running in opportunity, ie restrict myself to 4000 rpm and don't labour the engine. The engine is 1.6k supersport spec.

In reply to the original post, I used the Comma SynerG from new in this engine and the last one on the basis that it wasn't actually that much dearer than mineral oil and in any case if aI lways intend to use this oil, surely the engine will have been run in in such a way as to continue to run well with this oil, in effect not so sloppy and loose but being closer to design tolerances? (I don't know much about engineering)

 

Simon

[PACR]

When on a look-around visit at Nissan I was told that running in modern engines gently is worse than useless.

The cars are driven straight into a rolling road bay from the end of the line and run flat out to the rev limiter through the gears for 5 or so minutes. When the subject of engine wear was raised we were informed that due to tolerences and oils being much better the old fashioned methods weren't needed, and could end up doing more harm than good.

 

Piers

[Nick]

I wheel this one out every so often, courtesy of Peter Boegli on alt.cars.lotus June 1999:

 

I recall having been to the Porsche Test Centre in Weissach some 25 years ago. There I saw them taking performance figures of _every_ new engine for the 911 on a number of test benches. That meant screaming 7000 RpM under full load and for about a minute. Compare that to what many manufacturers (including Porsche) ask you to do during the running-in period! I then asked one of the engineers about the discrepancy in attitude. This was his answer,

which seems to be general enough to be still valid today and for different brands of engines:

 

The main area of concern in a brand new engine is the cylinder walls, i.e. their initial roughness, which reduces the effective area of contact between piston and cylinder. As a consequence the thermal combustion energy (the part which is not transformed into mechanical energy) will not flow through piston --> cylinder wall --> water as efficiently as required. If you keep

the period of high power output short enough, i.e. a minute or so, no harm will be done, because you just accumulate the heat in the piston. It is imperative though to give the engine a longer period of light load and of low speed to cool down again. Because most car manufacturers feel that their customers would not stick to the "one minute max" rule and get carried away

chasing fully run-in Mercedes on the Autobahn they set up the restrictive running-in rules. After all they want to avoid warranty claims.

 

Lubrication is less of a problem, according to this engineer: The cylinder wall roughness is in fact good, because it collects more oil. Pressure lubricated bearings in general have no metal-to-metal contact once the oil reaches them with sufficient pressure. This again requires that the oil has reached operating temperature.

 

So this is what I did running-in a number of Lotus Twin Cam engines, up to now with no apparent defects: Always warm up the engine before going over 3000-4000 Rpm. This takes 5 Miles on a hot summer day to 12 Miles in winter.

 

The water temperature gauge is a bad indicator, as the water heats up more rapidly than the oil. It's an oil thermometer that you need if you want to be sure. During the first 500 Miles use the car lightly, i.e. stay in lowish engine speed ranges for most of the time. A _burst_ of speed will not harm the engine, provided that it is short. During the following 500 miles

gradually extend the "bursts". E.g. accelerating through all gears up to - well what's the speed limit in GB - seems fair enough to me. Then hold the speed and let the engine dissipate the heat. In general use the gearbox and use the engine, but don't get carried away demanding high stress levels for

prolonged periods.

[Roger King]

Andy,

 

We have experienced a few problems with new engines of all types on the dyno when run from new with synthetic oils (cams, rings etc). For this reason we always do the initial running on a good quality non synthetic and then change to synthetic at 500 - 1000miles.

 

Another good reason for this is the amount of debris (both stuff that was never cleaned out in the first place and stuff from bedding in) that you will find in an engine at 500 miles. It makes sense to have fresh oil at this point, so why waste synthetic at the beginning? Yes I know that most manufacturers no longer specify an oil change until 10,000 miles or so, but I assume that you are not using the 7 for repping! In any case it can't do any harm.

 

Incidentally I would take Mike Bees advice about oil grade as being bang on.

 

With regard to running in, modern machined finishes (particularly plateau honed bore finishes) have drastically reduced the need for this, but there is still a big difference in internal friction between a brand new engine and a well bedded in one, so I reckon it still pays to treat the engine sensibly at first. This means neither labouring the engine by driving too gently, nor thrashing the life out of it.

[andy oliver]

Roger,

having already done 500 miles from new on synthetic

do you think it would be worth my while doing the next 500 on mineral oil?.I would obviously have

used mineral oil for the first 500 had I read this

thread a while ago.

[Roger King]

Andy (Oliver)

 

You'd be very unlucky if you had any problems on synthetic from new; it's just that doing so many engines, we've seen the odd one. If your engine is running well, burns no oil and has good compressions, it would seem that you have no problems. I can't see any benefit in using mineral oil now.

 

I still think that it's a good idea to change the oil at 500 - 1000 miles though. Synthetics are probably good for 25,000 miles (don't risk it), but they can't get over the debris that will accumulate in a new engine.

 

Presumably your 7 is the love of your life, so it's got to be worth an oil change, even at synthetic prices.

 

Question for anyone who works for an oil company - does 'synthetic' simply refer to the artificially high price?

[Red SLR]

Dont think anyone has mentioned this yet but Caterham suplied my car built and I had to take it to John Noble at 500 - 750 miles so they could remove the running in oil. It was a dark muddy green colour, but the mechanic said it starts life bright green.

 

Maybe Caterham can supply this oil?

 

It was replaced with Comma at 700miles. I then did another 300 miles "easy" and then now I have been using the full rev range for 800 miles or so.

 

Only had it on the limiter once or twice though as the shift up light comes in at 7.5k.

 

Simon.

 

 

 

X777CAT

[andy oliver]

Roger,

Many thanks for your invaluable advice-I'll now

take my new can of Mobil 1 out of the safe and put

it in the car!Incidentally,is the standard Unipart

filter O.K. or is there a better option?

Cheers,

Andy.

[aideen]

Ah - the GFE 171 versus GFE 260 debate.

 

Anyone got the definitive answer?

 

Aideen

 

[Tim Seipel]

Use the GFE 280 because thats the right one to use!

[aideen]

Sorry - I meant 280.

I've searched the archives at se7ens.net to find the reason - an anti-drain valve.

 

Now I wonder why I've crossed out 280 in my address/notebook and put 171 in it's place.

 

Aideen